Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?

Jashwell · Post by **Jashwell** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:14 pm

"Are there good reasons to believe that a god exists?"

Doesn't seem like much preamble is needed, but expect this largely to be filled (if at all) with arguments in favour of the existence of a God and counter-arguments. (Because the question is not "Are there good reasons to believe that a god does not exist?"). Though if you do think you have a good argument that shows it is reasonable to believe God does not exist, that is also valid.

This question comes up a lot in other threads where various classical arguments (e.g. ontological, axiological, cosmological) have been given in those threads.

If possible, try not to shotgun debate by raising lots of arguments at once. One sound argument should be sufficient.

jcb · Post by **jcb** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:13 pm

[Replying to post 248 by Jashwell]

I'll just spit it out.. Everything, I do mean everything, first originates with thought. This thought can originate from seeing or hearing whatever, or the thought can appear in the mind for no reason. History has shown the knowledge and all else relating to thought has been there for ages, even from the beginning. The wisdom to understand is an invisible source in the mind. Some very young children are born with the wisdom to recognize things in their mind that they should have no understanding of. Even older people have shown signs of having the same ability from time to time. None is put in the mind, it comes from the mind. History has shown it has always been there.. so.. where did it come from and how did it get there?

There are people who believe it was planted there long ago by aliens.

Jashwell · Post by **Jashwell** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:25 pm

[Replying to post 250 by jcb]

History has shown the knowledge and all else relating to thought has been there for ages, even from the beginning.

What do you mean? If you mean our understanding of reality, this is demonstrably false.

Some very young children are born with the wisdom to recognize things in their mind that they should have no understanding of.

"Born with"? "Should have no understanding of"?

God, being not from here in any sense of the word 'here', is an alien, by the way.

jcb · Post by **jcb** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:39 pm

Jashwell wrote: [Replying to post 250 by jcb]

History has shown the knowledge and all else relating to thought has been there for ages, even from the beginning.
What do you mean? If you mean our understanding of reality, this is demonstrably false.

Some very young children are born with the wisdom to recognize things in their mind that they should have no understanding of.
"Born with"? "Should have no understanding of"?

God, being not from here in any sense of the word 'here', is an alien, by the way.

If you look again I was not referring to reality alone. I am referring to things that young children and older should have no knowledge or understanding of. It has always been in the mind. Knowledge is invisible and remains invisible until it is put in a recognizable form.

It had to come from some source that had this knowledge and the traits that go with it, because history has shown it has been in the mind for ages.. even from the beginning.

Am I understanding you correctly. Are you saying God is an alien?

I thought you didn't believe in God!

Jashwell · Post by **Jashwell** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:41 pm

[Replying to post 252 by jcb]

I don't, but if he did exist, he would be by definition. Basically, I mean the (to me fictional) character of God is an alien, regardless of whether or not he exists.
Very trivial though. (hesitate to call it a point)

What things do young and older children know that they shouldn't?

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:44 pm

jcb wrote: [Replying to post 248 by Jashwell]

I'll just spit it out.. Everything, I do mean everything, first originates with thought. This thought can originate from seeing or hearing whatever, or the thought can appear in the mind for no reason. History has shown the knowledge and all else relating to thought has been there for ages, even from the beginning. The wisdom to understand is an invisible source in the mind. Some very young children are born with the wisdom to recognize things in their mind that they should have no understanding of. Even older people have shown signs of having the same ability from time to time. None is put in the mind, it comes from the mind. History has shown it has always been there.. so.. where did it come from and how did it get there?

Ok by everything do you mean knowledge or matter? If you refer to matter than no it did not originate from thought and there is no reason to think this nor any evidence to support that idea. Matter originating from thought has no basis in reality and would be irrational to think it does or has.

Understanding is not some invisible force in the mind. We have taken MRI's and EEG's and have mapped the brain as it tackles problem solving concepts involving understanding something. We have a pretty good idea of what happens in the brain when one tries to understand something. This invisible source you speak of is very visible just not in the sense that you seem to understand what is visible.

Individuals with high IQ's are not supernatural nor do they have an innate understanding of the world. They just have a higher functioning brain than their peers and can analyze and understand things much quicker.

None is put in the mind, it comes from the mind.

what is this it you speak of?

What does aliens have to do with any of this and why bring it up?

jcb · Post by **jcb** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:48 pm

[Replying to post 254 by DanieltheDragon]

I'm referring to knowledge wisdom and understanding. All three have been in the mind since the first human. It had to have been put there by some source much more intelligent than any one person will be in this life. History has shown it has always been there.

You mentioned aliens and I wasn't sure what you were trying to say.

Individuals with high IQ's are not supernatural nor do they have an innate understanding of the world. They just have a higher functioning brain than their peers and can analyze and understand things much quicker.

Quote:
None is put in the mind, it comes from the mind.

what is this it you speak of?

Both of these go together. These same brain childs when very young have the ability of knowing and understanding whatever before becoming associated with whatever.

jcb · Post by **jcb** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:51 pm

[Replying to post 254 by DanieltheDragon]

Sorry, I thought i was replying to Jashwell.. he mentioned alien

Jashwell · Post by **Jashwell** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:38 pm

[Replying to post 256 by jcb]

You said this:

jcb wrote:
There are people who believe it was planted there long ago by aliens.

Almost dismissively as if it were clearly silly of them to think that (I'm not saying it isn't, I think it is)
Just pointing out similarities between that and theism.

jcb · Post by **jcb** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:47 pm

[Replying to post 257 by Jashwell]

I think there is less evidence of aliens than of God.

The only other way I can show you God does exist is with the Bible. But since you accept nothing from the Bible, no point in trying.

The only other thing i can say is science and Bible do agree about at leasts 3 very important things scientist haven't know for a very long time.

ThePainefulTruth · Post by **ThePainefulTruth** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:14 pm

jcb wrote: [Replying to post 257 by Jashwell]

I think there is less evidence of aliens than of God.

The only other way I can show you God does exist is with the Bible. But since you accept nothing from the Bible, no point in trying.

And pointless because the Bible is pure hearsay, at best.

The only other thing i can say is science and Bible do agree about at leasts 3 very important things scientist haven't know for a very long time.

There is wisdom and history in the Bible. Do those 3 things belong in one of those categories, or are they something else. It might help to identify them.