Is there a need for apologetics?

[DanieltheDragon]

Given these parameters:

God is real
God is All powerful
God is All knowing
God is Omnipresent

Apologetics seems meaningless. What I am trying to say is that the scriptures themselves should be without criticism given the parameters of the god defined above. Thus if god were real there would be no need to defend god because god and his message would be without fault and fault could not be found otherwise it would violate the parameters of his existence.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 9 by bluethread]



No just no. No one is talking about bananas here the comparison just reminds me of more Ray Comfort brain melting apologetics. please no more bananas.

The point is that if a perfect being that is all powerful just all knowing and omnipresent would not allow his message to be distorted in any way. Hence if a god as described existed apologetics would not exist.

[Strider324]

I agree. Any God who's message needs to be explained and defended by a mortal apologist is already extremely inept by default.

So, are you making the argument that there is no deity because a banana needs to be peeled, banana peels can be dangerous and some people can not figure out how to peel a banana?

No, the argument is that an omniscient and omnipotent banana would be able to peel itself without vain, ambitious, controlling old white men insisting on telling everyone else what the banana is.....

[Divine Insight]

I agree. Any God who's message needs to be explained and defended by a mortal apologist is already extremely inept by default.

So, are you making the argument that there is no deity because a banana needs to be peeled, banana peels can be dangerous and some people can not figure out how to peel a banana?

Are you suggesting that the God of the Bible is as brainless as a banana?

Have you read the OP?

God is real
God is All powerful
God is All knowing
God is Omnipresent

Does a banana qualify as a God here?

[ttruscott]

...

The point is that if a perfect being that is all powerful just all knowing and omnipresent would not allow his message to be distorted in any way. Hence if a god as described existed apologetics would not exist.

This pronouncement must be proven as Christians believe that for HIS good reasons HE has indeed let Satan distort the interpretation of the message for HIS own purposes. Your claim this cannot happen is unsupported.

Peace, Ted

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Again that would invalidate the just trait that is assigned to god. If god is just his message would not be written or given in such away that any other being could distort it. If the message could be distorted less gifted individuals would be more easily deceived than other(again we are assuming he is our creator). That would not be just. defined below

just
jəst/Submit
adjective
1.
based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

To rephrase; allowing satan to manipulate his message would not be right or fair to less capable individuals. Thus allowing satan to manipulate the message would invalidate a just god.

[1213]

Thus if god were real there would be no need to defend god because god and his message would be without fault and fault could not be found otherwise it would violate the parameters of his existence.

In my opinion there is no fault in the Bible, if it is understood correctly and if you find fault in the Bible, then you should re think the matter.

But what do you think, should truth be defended? Surely it exists even if someone is full of lies?

[Divine Insight]

In my opinion there is no fault in the Bible, if it is understood correctly and if you find fault in the Bible, then you should re think the matter.

The extreme divisiveness of the Abrahamic religions and Christianity are proof positive that the Bible is extremely faulty. So that's not even in question. That is simply a fact of history.

Christians would love to just focus on the Christian Bible only (not that this would help matters), but non-Christians are aware of the much larger picture. The failure is not just with Christianity but with the entire Abrahamic picture of God. It a complete disaster. Both Christianity and Islam are a result of the very same underlying religious folklore. So non-Christians are seeing the very large picture of an extremely failed religious mythology.

Christians are in their little boxes trying to proclaim that their individual denominations have no faults, but that's clearly nothing more than a very biased delusion. The non-Christians can even see how silly that truly is. The differences between various Christian denominations is quite profound.

The fault can only be traced to the dogma itself. The Biblical dogma is faulty. Not even the most devote believers can agree on what the Bible has to say. That is an extremely faulty doctrine.

The fact that people are still attempting to defend and apologize for this doctrine today is truly unbelievable. It's been debunked and proven to be false so many times that it's actually a boring subject anymore.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 15 by 1213]

If you could find me the original manuscripts un altered and complete without damage then we could discuss its lack of fault. However, we do not have 1 original manuscript to go bye.

Take Mark 16:9-20 it does not appear in the earliest manuscripts but is a later addition. So we have one glaring fault in his message do we include Mark 16:9-20 or not? This is unclear since we do not have the original manuscript. Hence a god with the parameters given cannot exist.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Again that would invalidate the just trait that is assigned to god. If god is just his message would not be written or given in such away that any other being could distort it. If the message could be distorted less gifted individuals would be more easily deceived than other(again we are assuming he is our creator). That would not be just. defined below

just
jəst/Submit
adjective
1.
based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

To rephrase; allowing satan to manipulate his message would not be right or fair to less capable individuals. Thus allowing satan to manipulate the message would invalidate a just god.

The perfect and just message was given without distortion when we were all ingenuous innocents. Some rejected the part of the message pertaining to YHWH's deity and promise of salvation for all sin, self creating themselves as a new evil nature or addiction, always contrary to YHWH.

The ability to reject the message was necessary as part of our free will which was necessary for us to be able to choose true love and holiness. The ability to reject the message included the ability to distort the message. Without free will HIS goal of a perfect, loving holy telepathic communion with HIS creation could not be realized.

Thus HIS divine attributes do not disallow corruption of HIS message (which is just a re-working of the old problem of evil) which had to have been allowed as a possibility in our free will.

When this is all realized on earth, then we have what we see in religious observance of vast differences.

Peace, Ted

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to ttruscott]

Do humans have free will now, in the physical realm?