Not really trying to find the truth?

[DanieltheDragon]

After creating and examining various threads on Young Earth Creationism. When given a scenario excluding the possibility of evolution, big bang, and abiogenesis; I find that YEC supporters fail to justify a young earth.

More to the point YEC seems to be designed not to investigate the origins of the earth and life on it but to undermine the science that tries to due just that.


questions for debate

Does YEC support itself if we disregard Evolution, Abiogenesis and Big Bang theories?

Does YEC attempt to discover the origins of life on earth and how the earth was formed or is that just a smoke screen to undermine actual scientific pursuit?

[agnosticatheist]

After creating and examining various threads on Young Earth Creationism. When given a scenario excluding the possibility of evolution, big bang, and abiogenesis; I find that YEC supporters fail to justify a young earth.

More to the point YEC seems to be designed not to investigate the origins of the earth and life on it but to undermine the science that tries to due just that.


questions for debate

Does YEC support itself if we disregard Evolution, Abiogenesis and Big Bang theories?

Does YEC attempt to discover the origins of life on earth and how the earth was formed or is that just a smoke screen to undermine actual scientific pursuit?

Good thread, and good points, Daniel.

We are still figuring out how life continues to survive on a constantly changing planet, how living organisms came to be in the first place, and how the universe came to exist.

We don't have all the answers.

We might one day figure out that our current scientific theories are not accurate. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

But, the fact that current secular theories are incomplete, unproven, and/or developing, does not necessitate that YEC's answers to all these questions is correct.

Pointing out a problem is easy. You can be the guy sitting in the department meeting who always pokes holes in stuff and shoots stuff down, and everyone falls under the illusion that you are so insightful and so smart...

Pointing out a problem and offering an alternative solution is not as easy.

I also would like to see YEC people offer scientific justification for their position.

[Inigo Montoya]

Is it fair to say that YEC is synonymous with a strictly Judeo/Christian worldview?

Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion?

I'm not sure you can, and if you ARE, I think God simply becomes every explanation you need unless I'm missing something. How is YEC supported? Well... God did it.

Maybe I'm missing the point entirely. In fact, that's quite likely.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 3 by Inigo Montoya]

I think it would be fair to say that YEC is strictly Jewish/Christian. Although I have heard of some Islamic YECs. I don't know of any agnostics or spirtualists that are YEC although I suppose it is possible we had an atheist who argued against evolution not so long ago.

[SEMyers]

[Replying to post 3 by Inigo Montoya]

Greetings Inigo Montoya

Interesting question you posed: "Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion? " Yes! God is the ultimate scientist. The earth is the product of His laboratory.

But can this very same question be applied to the priests of evoluation? Their science is really tainted with their religious denials of God. The real questions are:

Can one be an evolutionist and not be religious?
Can one be an evolutionist and not be automatically biased?

The proofs from complexity of design to young earth tests are so many. New proofs arise in every publication. It is amazing that the evolutionary priests can be so loyal to their self-righteous anti-God religious creeds that they miss all the true science.

S. E. Myers

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 3 by Inigo Montoya]

Greetings Inigo Montoya

Interesting question you posed: "Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion? " Yes! God is the ultimate scientist. The earth is the product of His laboratory.

Omniscient beings cannot perform science, because science is a form of inquiry.

Omnipotent beings have no need for laboratories.

But can this very same question be applied to the priests of evoluation? Their science is really tainted with their religious denials of God.

Many people accept evolution and believe in a god at the same time. Just not your god.

Also, could you elaborate on these "religious denials of God" you speak of? Why do you call them so?

The real questions are:

Can one be an evolutionist and not be religious?
Can one be an evolutionist and not be automatically biased?

1) Yes, of course. Evolution only deals with a finite segment of reality. Religion deals with ultimate ends and causes of reality. Belief in evolution can't itself be religious belief, although it is compatible with many kinds of religious belief.
2) No. All beliefs are a kind of bias in and of themselves.

The proofs from complexity of design to young earth tests are so many. New proofs arise in every publication. It is amazing that the evolutionary priests can be so loyal to their self-righteous anti-God religious creeds that they miss all the true science.

S. E. Myers

Would you mind backing up these claims?

[McCulloch]

Interesting question you posed: "Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion? " Yes! God is the ultimate scientist. The earth is the product of His laboratory.

This analogy shows an ignorance of the meaning and the methodology of sciences. Many people mistake technology and engineering with science. Engineers and technologists take the results and findings of sciences and put them to practical use, but that does not make the scientists. Scientists attempt to discover truth about how things work by observation, hypothesis and experimentation. God, who I am told, already knows everything, has nothing to discover. He might be described as the ultimate engineer, but never as the ultimate scientist.

[Clownboat]

Interesting question you posed: "Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion? " Yes! God is the ultimate scientist. The earth is the product of His laboratory.

Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion?

He answers "Yes", then justifies said statement with religious mumbo jumbo!
Perhaps he is attempting to slay us with irony?

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to post 3 by Inigo Montoya]

...

The proofs from complexity of design to young earth tests are so many. New proofs arise in every publication. It is amazing that the evolutionary priests can be so loyal to their self-righteous anti-God religious creeds that they miss all the true science.

S. E. Myers

The "proofs" are, in fact, very few and all have been cataloged, numbered and refuted. There are never "new proofs," in fact, there are only attempts to play semantic games that strain credulity in order to create new strawmen and move the goalposts. Despite the lies, the subterfuge and the disingenuousness, the refutations stand as stronger than ever with each cycle.

[Divine Insight]

Can you be a YEC and be unaffiliated with religion?

I don't believe that such a position would make any sense at all. There is nothing in nature that suggests a young earth. That very idea comes solely from the Abrahamic God myths.

I do imagine that there may exist YEC's who claim to be unaffiliated with these religions when they actually are. I have seen religious fanatics pretending not to be supporting religion whilst clearly supporting religious agendas. It seems to be an unfortunate truth that religious people will often stoop to extremely denial and lies just to try to support their religion whilst pretending to be unbiased.

This is especially true on the Internet where a strongly religious person can pretend to be arguing for religious agendas from an "atheistic" point of view, whilst in real life they could be conducting bible study classes every morning before logging onto the Internet to play their deceptive and dishonest role.

I think the case in Dover Pennsylvania over teaching evolution in schools has revealed just how horrible dishonest and underhanded religious people can be. They were caught in quite a few lies in this case, and were clearly trying to put creationism into their school for religious reasons. They confess to this in interviews even though in court their lied through their teeth that their motivation was not religious:

Religious people clearly cannot be trusted to be truthful. Even when it comes to their very own religious motivations:

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