dianaiad wrote:
Subject to the definition of 'evil,' of course, which I define as any action done for selfish, immoral or unethical reasons, to deliberately cause harm, no matter how slight. Natural phenomena are not evil; they simply exist. Actions which may seem evil in the eyes of an observer may not be evil, depending on the knowledge of the actor, his motive and his ultimate purpose.
If someone disagrees with the above definition, please provide yours before engaging in this thread so that we will all know what we are talking about.
I disagree with your definition of "evil". Clearly your definition of "evil" is tailored precisely to fit theological ideals. Moreover, I would argue that the Bible doesn't even agree with you.
Jesus is said to have case "evil demons" out of people's bodies. If that's the case then who was "evil" the demons? Or the person who had become infested by demons?
That alone is a highly problematic issue with a religion that claims that people are supposed to be responsible for their own actions.
Also you claim that "Natural phenomena are not evil; they simply exist.", but again that's not Biblical. Because in the Bible God often causes "natural phenomena" to punish or plague people with disease etc. So in a very real sense then the "Wrath of God" himself would be an evil act (even by your definition) since he is acting in a way to harm others.
From a secular point of view, the very concept of "evil" is nothing more than a subjective judgment. In fact, outside of religion it isn't even really proper to call it 'evil' because evil is a religious term. In secular terms "evil" simply means anything destructive or that causes harm or discomfort.
dianaiad wrote:
OK, definition given: here's the question.
The Problem of Evil is often considered to be a big obstacle to the Abrahamic idea of God; many consider it to be the one thing that disproves such a deity.
It does conflict with a supposedly omnibenevolent creator. Why would an omnibenevolent creator allow "evil" to exist in his creation? This is a problem for theologians, not for secularists. Secularists would actually be quite shocked if the world didn't contain things we don't like. In fact, a perfect world would be reason to suspect that there might be an omnibenevolent creator behind it. But that's clearly not what we have.
dianaiad wrote:
However, if DI is correct about 'scientific morality,' then there IS no evil. If there is none, how can it be a problem?
............is there really no evil?
Are all so-called evil acts the result of mental illness, so that the doers of evil cannot be blamed or held accountable?
This latter must necessarily be the truth.
Would you consider it to be "
mentally sane" to torture a helpless child?
Would you consider it to be "
mentally sane" to violently rape and murder a nice innocent little girl or boy?
If not, then how can you not see that such people must necessarily be mentally insane?
Where do we draw the line between mental insanity and mere crimes being done by sane people who are just refusing to obey some God?
Clearly there is no sharp distinction here. Yet for theologians there can be no distinctions made. All evil must be a sane and willing decision to disobey God for personal gain.
What about the religious people who flew planes into the World Trade Centers? Where they "evil"? Clearly they weren't doing it for personal gain. They thought they were doing the will of Allah. They didn't see themselves as "evil", on the contrary they saw themselves as martyrs for God.
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In a secular world there is no need to define any of these things as being "evil". They are all done for mentally ill reasons. In fact, this is why many secularists feel that belief in a religion can indeed be a form of mental illness.
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There is no "Problem of Evil" that needs to be explained away in a secular world. The explanation is obvious. The world simply isn't perfect and a lot of people are indeed suffering from mental illness.
It only becomes a problem when we imagine an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God as the creator. Then we have a problem explaining why there exist mentally ill people?
Why did this God create mental illness?
It cannot be explained away by proclaiming that everyone is "perfectly sane" and that all these evil doers are actually "sanely choosing" to do evil things just to spite their creator.
That's absurd, yet this is what a person must believe to support these religions.
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The "Problem of Evil" belongs solely to the religious theologians.
For secularists there is no "Problem of Evil".
If anything exists at all its a "Problem of Mental Illness", but that is not a problem that defies secularism. It's just a problem that secularists would actually expect to be a part of a natural secular world. There is no surprise there.
So for a secularist the world is exactly as expected.
But for a theist the world is an extreme "
problem" that cannot be explained by postulating the existence of a ombibenevolent God. On the contrary, the existence of "evil" is extremely problematic in that philosophy.
The only solution they have come up with thus far is to blame the problem on humans.
But that's absurd.
