Parable of the workers in the vineyard, is it really fair?

[lostguest]

I was wondering, how is the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matthew 20: 1-16) different from a modern day employer who pays men more than women for doing the exact same work? Or what if an employer decided to pay, for example white people more than people of other races (or minorities and people from third world countries) for doing the same amount or even more work?
Also, even though people normally agree beforehand to certain work conditions as far as pay and type/amount of work, they still have an expectation of payment proportional to their work. In my opinion it would be different if they knew prior to agreeing to work under those conditions that others would get paid the same for a fraction of their effort and knowing that they would be carrying other people's weight.
I understand that the householder was trying to be generous to the laborers who came late. However, personally I think that the parable could only be considered fair if for instance, the householder had "loaned" the payment to the late workers but had then come back to work another day to make up for the hours they didn't work, given the fact that the early workers were not aware of all the facts prior to agreeing to work. Or maybe the householder should have let the early workers go home early once the late workers arrived while still paying them the agreed upon amount.

[lostguest]

[Replying to Wootah]

These are some definitions of the word "fair" according to Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

- treating people in a way that does not favor some over others

- marked by impartiality and honesty : free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism

So I don't agree with the idea that fairness is relative to what we see in reality or in everyday life. Otherwise you'd have to say that slavery was fair back in the 18th century.
Also by stating that you'd ask for more money if a co-worker was getting paid the same as you for doing the same amount of work, implicitly acknowledges that you see yourself at a disadvantage and that you see inequality in treatment between you and that co-worker. Otherwise, why else would you feel the need to do something about the situation if you felt you were being treated fairly?

[Overcomer]

It's always important to consider the genre of the Biblical passage in question. The story of the workers is a parable. A parable is a short, simple story with common human characters that illustrates an important moral or religious truth. It is not meant to be taken literally.

So on a spiritual level, what does it mean?

The images of the vineyard and the vineyard owner are common Biblical images. The vineyard owner represents the Lord. The vineyard represents the Kingdom of the Lord. Basically, the parable is the story of God's grace. There are those who come to Christ early in life and those who come late, but both will receive the same gift of salvation and entrance into God's presence for eternity, no matter when they entered into a relationship with him.

Also note that Matthew's gospel, unlike those of Mark, Luke and John, is aimed at a Jewish audience. Christ is preparing the Jews for the fact that Gentiles will be accepted into God's kingdom even though they came late to the party. The Jews had been serving God for two thousand years when Christ came. Yet the Gentiles who accepted the Lord following his resurrection would be receiving salvation right alongside the Jews that recognized Jesus as the promised Messiah. As it turns out, this did not sit well with some Jews who felt superior to the Gentiles as we note in several of the New Testament epistles. So the parable was prescient in its message.

It's a message that is still pertinent today as people come to Christ at various stages in their lives and still receive the gift of salvation. Whether you accept Jesus when you're nine or ninety, eternal life with God is yours. As I said, the parable speaks to his grace and mercy.

[TheGreatDebate]

[Replying to post 1 by lostguest]

The parable is specifically speaking on the unfairness of others not performing the same work, and that is done for a reason. Realize that the parable is unfair, according to what we define as unfair.

We as part of the creation do not deserve anything, whatsoever. No matter what. Is it unfair to ask one that does not deserve, for something? No. What about someone, that does not deserve anything, that gave more? No. Does somebody, that deserves nothing, deserve more? No.

The point is, none of us deserve anything, thus we deserve nothing. If we deserved more based on what we did, than we are not saved based on the grace of God, but rather works.

We deserve nothing no matter what. I don't care what we do. It is solely on the grace of God that we are saved.

Not to demean performing the will of God. One that realizes he does not deserve anything, but realizes he was still created, will serve the Creator regardless. Performing the law is important. But if we perform the law thinking we will receive grace, we have actually done nothing because we do not understand what grace is.

Grace(or forgiveness) literally means receiving something that we do not deserve. No matter what we do, we are undeserving.

Serve God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, realize that you still deserve death, and trust God. That is what He is looking for, and that is who He will choose to save.

[Wootah]

Whilst it's reasonable and necessary to look at the parables message we should not step over that the idea of paying employees their agreed wages is fair.

Whether someone uses the conditions of another to bargain for more is entirely up to them and is an emotive argument and not one of fairness. Of course in bargaining one should use what ever cards they can play. And of course fairness is probably not real but in this case I am equating fair with just and right and it is just and right to pay people what you agreed to for the work they agreed to.

[Diane12]

[Replying to post 1 by lostguest]

Perhaps this topic is older, I did forget to check the date of it. So I apologize if I am late to this particular discussion.

The parable is not speaking about employer/employee wage relations. The parable is speaking about the generosity of the employer. How gracious he is that, even those who were late because they didn't hear about the opportunity for work as early as the ones who got their earlier.

To such a generous employer, he rewarded even those who didn't deserve as much the same.

This is not showing the fairness of the human, this is exemplifying the gracious generosity of God.

I lived my life as a non-Christian. I spent the last few years wrestling with one question after the other about who is God and who is Jesus and even after deciding I wanted to be Christian I couldn't get it out of my head that I might go to hell for becoming a Christian if I happened to have been wrong so I couldn't even then actually become Christian until I had every single fear, worry, concern, etc. addressed.

I only got everything addressed yesterday... yesterday, is the first day I am Christian.

Do I only deserve half a heaven because I didn't spend my entire life as a Christian? If I die tomorrow should I only get heaven for 1 day because I only spent 1 full day of my life as a Christian?

I'm glad God is generous, like the employer in this parable. Maybe if you were me you would be too.

[bluethread]

The parable is speaking about the generosity of the employer. How gracious he is that, even those who were late because they didn't hear about the opportunity for work as early as the ones who got their earlier.

Given modern culture in many places in these united states, it might very well be seen as unfair if they didn't all receive the same amount. The arguments would be that it was not their fault that they didn't know about the opportunity, the amount paid to those who didn't work very long will help the economy, and the owner of the vineyard doesn't "need" all that money anyway.

[ttruscott]

The parable teaches nothing about the use of money in business or work. It is about the spiritual things of salvation. The Christians arriving to salvation late get the same pay in eternal life that the Jews got though they 'laboured' under the law for centuries...

This foreshadows Paul's ministry to the Gentiles, an unheard of thing for a Jewish rabbi, and the understanding that came to Peter in Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

To look for a secular instruction and fulfillment in modern workplace ethics is short sighted, ignoring the spiritual aspects of the parable.

Peace, Ted

[jerryxplu]

[Replying to post 1 by lostguest]

eh pretty sure the whole vineyard worker is about actually getting into heaven and how you don't get to be special just because you were their earlier and all will receive the same pay (in heaven)

Now it is not the same concept as not being pay the same in real life for let's say 40 hour week vs 10 hour week.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to bluethread]

But if you need a modern day example that matches perfectly the situation described in the parable, tell me if you'd think you'd feel you are being treated fairly if you were required to work 8 hr work days while all of your co-workers were required to work just 1 hr a day, and you will all get paid the same amount? Be honest!
And once again, we are not trying to find out what's more beneficial or fair for the employer, we are talking about fairness for the workers.

I applied and was hired by a company some years ago. All of the employees were salaried, but my job required me to work a minimum of 8 hours a day and quite often I was working 10-12 hour days. After a while it did begin to bother me, but the fact remains that I accepted the terms of the job. Later they went to an hourly rate and I was pulling in way more money than anyone else there. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it. Nobody else really wanted to be working those hours either.

[Yahu]

I was wondering, how is the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matthew 20: 1-16) different from a modern day employer who pays men more than women for doing the exact same work? Or what if an employer decided to pay, for example white people more than people of other races (or minorities and people from third world countries) for doing the same amount or even more work?
Also, even though people normally agree beforehand to certain work conditions as far as pay and type/amount of work, they still have an expectation of payment proportional to their work. In my opinion it would be different if they knew prior to agreeing to work under those conditions that others would get paid the same for a fraction of their effort and knowing that they would be carrying other people's weight.
I understand that the householder was trying to be generous to the laborers who came late. However, personally I think that the parable could only be considered fair if for instance, the householder had "loaned" the payment to the late workers but had then come back to work another day to make up for the hours they didn't work, given the fact that the early workers were not aware of all the facts prior to agreeing to work. Or maybe the householder should have let the early workers go home early once the late workers arrived while still paying them the agreed upon amount.

I think you are missing the point of the parable. The work needed to be completed. Paying additional workers was required to get in the harvest in time. It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with race/sex based discrimination. A company may pay a contract worker a higher wage if they need short term labor to complete a job on time. That would be a better example in our modern society.

That parable is about those that are early workings in the kingdom verses those that live in later time periods will earn the same rewards. The later work, if not completed will result in lost harvest.