Will gays EVER be accepted by mainstream Christianity?

[KCKID]

The Mainstream Christian Church (i.e. the 'Christian Church' in general) appears to have an unshakable belief that gay people cannot possibly be Christians. Therefore gay people will always be regarded as 'lepers' because the mainstream Church believes that homosexuality is against the will of God and the actual practicing of such is a 'grave sin'. This is in spite of the fact that nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality referred to as a grave sin. This more comes from the minds of people who have received a life time of brainwashing into believing this. Where homosexual activity IS mentioned in scripture it almost always - in fact, PROBABLY always - refers to the practice of idolatry and not as WE today refer to homosexuality. There are those Christians who are so appalled at the notion that gay people might desire to integrate with 'actual Christians' within their Church community that they suggest gays start their own denomination ...minus the 'Christian' prefix, of course, which would be sacrilege. Such folks want nothing to do with homosexual people and their minds appear to be set on this.

Below is a recent item from The Guardian that tells of the plight of gay Christians in Uganda. In our particular neck of the woods (probably the majority of those of us who participate on the forum) gays have no fear of state imposed death or life imprisonment as do those in places such as Uganda. Gays do, however, have a stigma placed on them by most Christians that results in rejection by the mainstream Church and, indeed, by God himself. And, of course, the rejection of God is tantamount to death or, worse still, eternal torment. The latter makes the penalty imposed on gays in Uganda pale by comparison.

Will mainstream Christianity ever be accepting of people whose only 'sin' is that they happen to be gay ...i.e. an involuntary sexual attraction between two people of the same gender? If not, why not? Please, give your HONEST reasons.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... ry-kampala

Sunday is a special day in Uganda, the conservative east African country that is threatening to put gay people behind bars for life. On Sunday you can see families flocking to churches all over the country for prayer, wearing their best clothes.

The sermons are predictable. Church leaders will pray for divine intervention against the corrupt leaders, poverty and the potholed roads, and then finally call doom upon the country's homosexuals who are sinning against the Christian God and ruining African culture.

But not at a tiny church tucked away in one of Kampala's suburbs. Here, gay people meet in devoted challenge to mainstream denominations that have declared them outcasts. With dread-locked hair and in jeans and bathroom slippers, members of this congregation would stand out in the prim and proper evangelical church I sometimes go to. I feel overdressed in my white dress.

"Here we are all about freedom," Pepe Onziema, a gay rights activist tells me. "It is a universal church. We welcome people whether gay or straight."

The gates may be open but the road to the church that calls itself a friendship and reconciliation centre is not paved with sleek cars or thronged with believers. The worshippers trickle in. They take their seats, but not before surveying the crowd furtively, trying to identify everyone. Their life depends on this vigilance.

In Uganda, police raid homes and arrest those they suspect to be gay. Homosexuality is an offence under the penal code. The president, Yoweri Museveni, refuses to pass a bill that seeks to strengthen the punishments for homosexuality to include life imprisonment, but isn’t under pressure to do so. Conservative Christian churches, under the auspices of the Uganda Joint Christian Council, refuse to accept homosexuals in spite of more gay-friendly approaches from parent churches abroad. The anti-gay furnace is fanned by American evangelical churches that have made it their mission to free Africa of homosexuality, saying it is alien to African culture.

The gay Ugandan church seeks to spread an alternative gospel of love and acceptance for all. On this particular Sunday, it is the memorial of David Kato, a gay rights activist who was murdered in 2011. So the numbers are bigger than usual. When the church was started by Bishop Christopher Senyonjo (who has since been thrown out of the Anglican Church for ministering to gay people), the gay community in Uganda attended devotedly. But with arrests and growing anti-gay sentiments, threats to their lives and arrests, fewer and fewer people come to the church.

"Our numbers have reduced ever since we started in 2008," Denis, the chaplain and a primary school teacher, tells me. "It is worse now that the bill has been passed." If Denis's employees knew of his orientation or his calling, he would certainly lose his job. "This is the only place we can feel at home. Here we can worship God without feeling guilty or fearing persecution."

Joining a gay congregation in Uganda is risky but Onziema says it is necessary in a society that greatly values community. For on Sundays, when many Ugandans spend time with their families, most gay people have nowhere to go. "Coming here lets us know that we are not alone and gives us the strength to continue the struggle," Onziema says.

You can see both hope and fear in the eyes of the congregation as they read Bible verses proclaiming God's protection over them and sing "What a friend we have in Jesus".

Here, there are no thunderous shouts of praise, speaking in tongues or Bible-thumping that is characteristic of the evangelism that is so trendy in the country. In the quiet worship of Uganda's gay community, there is a still hope and the kind of courage you can only muster after you have seen it all and there is nothing left to fear. Sunday is also the day gay people in Uganda cast off their masks to chat about the latest fashion, cars and celebrities.

"You thought we were going to pray that God stops the anti-homosexuality bill," Mugisha, the head of Sexual Minorities Uganda, asks me with laughter and mischief in his voice. "It will not pass. We do not need to pray for that."

Mugisha is for a moment free from his job, his life, fighting for the basic human rights of gay people. "I come here for the community. It is better than staying home alone," he says. As the service ends, members of the congregation are asked to say something in memory of David Kato, whose spirit of resilience they will need as they walk out of the church into their daily routine.

"We know he did not die in vain," Mugisha says. "One day we shall be accepted."

[Deidre32]

[Replying to post 425 by KCKID]

Yes, I sadly agree.
Religion tends to divide, especially Christianity.
If the NT were to turn out to be factual, Jesus would be gravely disappointed to see what people have been doing in "his name."

[Wordleymaster1]

The Mainstream Christian Church (i.e. the 'Christian Church' in general) appears to have an unshakable belief that gay people cannot possibly be Christians. Therefore gay people will always be regarded as 'lepers' because the mainstream Church believes that homosexuality is against the will of God and the actual practicing of such is a 'grave sin'. This is in spite of the fact that nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality referred to as a grave sin. This more comes from the minds of people who have received a life time of brainwashing into believing this. Where homosexual activity IS mentioned in scripture it almost always - in fact, PROBABLY always - refers to the practice of idolatry and not as WE today refer to homosexuality. There are those Christians who are so appalled at the notion that gay people might desire to integrate with 'actual Christians' within their Church community that they suggest gays start their own denomination ...minus the 'Christian' prefix, of course, which would be sacrilege. Such folks want nothing to do with homosexual people and their minds appear to be set on this.

Below is a recent item from The Guardian that tells of the plight of gay Christians in Uganda. In our particular neck of the woods (probably the majority of those of us who participate on the forum) gays have no fear of state imposed death or life imprisonment as do those in places such as Uganda. Gays do, however, have a stigma placed on them by most Christians that results in rejection by the mainstream Church and, indeed, by God himself. And, of course, the rejection of God is tantamount to death or, worse still, eternal torment. The latter makes the penalty imposed on gays in Uganda pale by comparison.

Will mainstream Christianity ever be accepting of people whose only 'sin' is that they happen to be gay ...i.e. an involuntary sexual attraction between two people of the same gender? If not, why not? Please, give your HONEST reasons.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... ry-kampala

Sunday is a special day in Uganda, the conservative east African country that is threatening to put gay people behind bars for life. On Sunday you can see families flocking to churches all over the country for prayer, wearing their best clothes.

The sermons are predictable. Church leaders will pray for divine intervention against the corrupt leaders, poverty and the potholed roads, and then finally call doom upon the country's homosexuals who are sinning against the Christian God and ruining African culture.

But not at a tiny church tucked away in one of Kampala's suburbs. Here, gay people meet in devoted challenge to mainstream denominations that have declared them outcasts. With dread-locked hair and in jeans and bathroom slippers, members of this congregation would stand out in the prim and proper evangelical church I sometimes go to. I feel overdressed in my white dress.

"Here we are all about freedom," Pepe Onziema, a gay rights activist tells me. "It is a universal church. We welcome people whether gay or straight."

The gates may be open but the road to the church that calls itself a friendship and reconciliation centre is not paved with sleek cars or thronged with believers. The worshippers trickle in. They take their seats, but not before surveying the crowd furtively, trying to identify everyone. Their life depends on this vigilance.

In Uganda, police raid homes and arrest those they suspect to be gay. Homosexuality is an offence under the penal code. The president, Yoweri Museveni, refuses to pass a bill that seeks to strengthen the punishments for homosexuality to include life imprisonment, but isn’t under pressure to do so. Conservative Christian churches, under the auspices of the Uganda Joint Christian Council, refuse to accept homosexuals in spite of more gay-friendly approaches from parent churches abroad. The anti-gay furnace is fanned by American evangelical churches that have made it their mission to free Africa of homosexuality, saying it is alien to African culture.

The gay Ugandan church seeks to spread an alternative gospel of love and acceptance for all. On this particular Sunday, it is the memorial of David Kato, a gay rights activist who was murdered in 2011. So the numbers are bigger than usual. When the church was started by Bishop Christopher Senyonjo (who has since been thrown out of the Anglican Church for ministering to gay people), the gay community in Uganda attended devotedly. But with arrests and growing anti-gay sentiments, threats to their lives and arrests, fewer and fewer people come to the church.

"Our numbers have reduced ever since we started in 2008," Denis, the chaplain and a primary school teacher, tells me. "It is worse now that the bill has been passed." If Denis's employees knew of his orientation or his calling, he would certainly lose his job. "This is the only place we can feel at home. Here we can worship God without feeling guilty or fearing persecution."

Joining a gay congregation in Uganda is risky but Onziema says it is necessary in a society that greatly values community. For on Sundays, when many Ugandans spend time with their families, most gay people have nowhere to go. "Coming here lets us know that we are not alone and gives us the strength to continue the struggle," Onziema says.

You can see both hope and fear in the eyes of the congregation as they read Bible verses proclaiming God's protection over them and sing "What a friend we have in Jesus".

Here, there are no thunderous shouts of praise, speaking in tongues or Bible-thumping that is characteristic of the evangelism that is so trendy in the country. In the quiet worship of Uganda's gay community, there is a still hope and the kind of courage you can only muster after you have seen it all and there is nothing left to fear. Sunday is also the day gay people in Uganda cast off their masks to chat about the latest fashion, cars and celebrities.

"You thought we were going to pray that God stops the anti-homosexuality bill," Mugisha, the head of Sexual Minorities Uganda, asks me with laughter and mischief in his voice. "It will not pass. We do not need to pray for that."

Mugisha is for a moment free from his job, his life, fighting for the basic human rights of gay people. "I come here for the community. It is better than staying home alone," he says. As the service ends, members of the congregation are asked to say something in memory of David Kato, whose spirit of resilience they will need as they walk out of the church into their daily routine.

"We know he did not die in vain," Mugisha says. "One day we shall be accepted."

They sure will, given enough time. I just don't know how much time mankind has and if it's enough!
Though there will always exist fanatics on the edge of the Christian culture that will refuse to accept reality. That's probably true for a lot of religions too.
Personally, if Christians stay out of my life, I don't care if they like me or not. Probably the very same way they feel about me!

[99percentatheism]

Isn't it funny that man pretends to know what "God" despises? And it's always what mankind despises. Hmmmm...

I guess only the sinless can consider themselves "true Christians," eh?

Sinless? Only people that do not believe in the Biblical God are "sinless" now aren't they?

Look at the case of the "born again" experience. Or, actually, "born from above," which looks to carry the connotation of recognizing the sin nature in yourself.

Now, in my opinion, based on interactions and experience . . . if I were to just use www.debatingchristianity.com as my measuring stick, it looks like atheists and homosexuals and bi-sexuals and transgendered persons are the height of moral and intellectual perfection attained by human beings. Whereas Christians seemed to be the most flawed identity known to man.

But that's just my experience and the feelings I get with/from the people I have interacted with here at this website.

Be that as it may, looking towards the OP, the answer is a resounding NO. Based on the history of homosexuals and their sexual proclivities trying to attain "acceptance" in The Church throughout its history. From the opposition homosexuals have faced since the first Churches were formed, to the Bogemil heresy, to the current attack on The Church from the modern gay pride agenda, there is no way to literally wipe away Christian morality and Christian reality - as based on what is written and was canonized in the New Testament - and reinvent a gay pride aspect to Christian theology.

Or else it would be effortless for homosexuals and their legion of supporters to do so.

But as can be seen from the intense machinations and scripture mangling, there is no reason or right for gay pride proponents to force the gay agenda and gay pride into mainstream Christianity. There is not one shred of support for any ancient or modern homosexuality movement to find foundation in Christian theology.

[99percentatheism]

Deidre32
[Replying to post 425 by KCKID]

Yes, I sadly agree.
Religion tends to divide, especially Christianity.

That is exactly the message of Jesus of Nazareth. The same consistent message of the Apostles and the writers of the New Testament. If you trace the "story" of the Bible, separation is the theme. It is most definitely NOT an ANYTHING GOES orgiastic environment being offered up for consumption in the Bible.

If the NT were to turn out to be factual, Jesus would be gravely disappointed to see what people have been doing in "his name."

100% correct. Those that have maintained a worldly basis for their spiritual life will be very disappointed as well. According to Jesus.

[99percentatheism]

The Mainstream Christian Church (i.e. the 'Christian Church' in general) appears to have an unshakable belief that gay people cannot possibly be Christians. Therefore gay people will always be regarded as 'lepers' because the mainstream Church believes that homosexuality is against the will of God and the actual practicing of such is a 'grave sin'. This is in spite of the fact that nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality referred to as a grave sin. This more comes from the minds of people who have received a life time of brainwashing into believing this. Where homosexual activity IS mentioned in scripture it almost always - in fact, PROBABLY always - refers to the practice of idolatry and not as WE today refer to homosexuality. There are those Christians who are so appalled at the notion that gay people might desire to integrate with 'actual Christians' within their Church community that they suggest gays start their own denomination ...minus the 'Christian' prefix, of course, which would be sacrilege. Such folks want nothing to do with homosexual people and their minds appear to be set on this.

Below is a recent item from The Guardian that tells of the plight of gay Christians in Uganda. In our particular neck of the woods (probably the majority of those of us who participate on the forum) gays have no fear of state imposed death or life imprisonment as do those in places such as Uganda. Gays do, however, have a stigma placed on them by most Christians that results in rejection by the mainstream Church and, indeed, by God himself. And, of course, the rejection of God is tantamount to death or, worse still, eternal torment. The latter makes the penalty imposed on gays in Uganda pale by comparison.

Will mainstream Christianity ever be accepting of people whose only 'sin' is that they happen to be gay ...i.e. an involuntary sexual attraction between two people of the same gender? If not, why not? Please, give your HONEST reasons.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/f ... ry-kampala

Sunday is a special day in Uganda, the conservative east African country that is threatening to put gay people behind bars for life. On Sunday you can see families flocking to churches all over the country for prayer, wearing their best clothes.

The sermons are predictable. Church leaders will pray for divine intervention against the corrupt leaders, poverty and the potholed roads, and then finally call doom upon the country's homosexuals who are sinning against the Christian God and ruining African culture.

But not at a tiny church tucked away in one of Kampala's suburbs. Here, gay people meet in devoted challenge to mainstream denominations that have declared them outcasts. With dread-locked hair and in jeans and bathroom slippers, members of this congregation would stand out in the prim and proper evangelical church I sometimes go to. I feel overdressed in my white dress.

"Here we are all about freedom," Pepe Onziema, a gay rights activist tells me. "It is a universal church. We welcome people whether gay or straight."

The gates may be open but the road to the church that calls itself a friendship and reconciliation centre is not paved with sleek cars or thronged with believers. The worshippers trickle in. They take their seats, but not before surveying the crowd furtively, trying to identify everyone. Their life depends on this vigilance.

In Uganda, police raid homes and arrest those they suspect to be gay. Homosexuality is an offence under the penal code. The president, Yoweri Museveni, refuses to pass a bill that seeks to strengthen the punishments for homosexuality to include life imprisonment, but isn’t under pressure to do so. Conservative Christian churches, under the auspices of the Uganda Joint Christian Council, refuse to accept homosexuals in spite of more gay-friendly approaches from parent churches abroad. The anti-gay furnace is fanned by American evangelical churches that have made it their mission to free Africa of homosexuality, saying it is alien to African culture.

The gay Ugandan church seeks to spread an alternative gospel of love and acceptance for all. On this particular Sunday, it is the memorial of David Kato, a gay rights activist who was murdered in 2011. So the numbers are bigger than usual. When the church was started by Bishop Christopher Senyonjo (who has since been thrown out of the Anglican Church for ministering to gay people), the gay community in Uganda attended devotedly. But with arrests and growing anti-gay sentiments, threats to their lives and arrests, fewer and fewer people come to the church.

"Our numbers have reduced ever since we started in 2008," Denis, the chaplain and a primary school teacher, tells me. "It is worse now that the bill has been passed." If Denis's employees knew of his orientation or his calling, he would certainly lose his job. "This is the only place we can feel at home. Here we can worship God without feeling guilty or fearing persecution."

Joining a gay congregation in Uganda is risky but Onziema says it is necessary in a society that greatly values community. For on Sundays, when many Ugandans spend time with their families, most gay people have nowhere to go. "Coming here lets us know that we are not alone and gives us the strength to continue the struggle," Onziema says.

You can see both hope and fear in the eyes of the congregation as they read Bible verses proclaiming God's protection over them and sing "What a friend we have in Jesus".

Here, there are no thunderous shouts of praise, speaking in tongues or Bible-thumping that is characteristic of the evangelism that is so trendy in the country. In the quiet worship of Uganda's gay community, there is a still hope and the kind of courage you can only muster after you have seen it all and there is nothing left to fear. Sunday is also the day gay people in Uganda cast off their masks to chat about the latest fashion, cars and celebrities.

"You thought we were going to pray that God stops the anti-homosexuality bill," Mugisha, the head of Sexual Minorities Uganda, asks me with laughter and mischief in his voice. "It will not pass. We do not need to pray for that."

Mugisha is for a moment free from his job, his life, fighting for the basic human rights of gay people. "I come here for the community. It is better than staying home alone," he says. As the service ends, members of the congregation are asked to say something in memory of David Kato, whose spirit of resilience they will need as they walk out of the church into their daily routine.

"We know he did not die in vain," Mugisha says. "One day we shall be accepted."

They sure will, given enough time. I just don't know how much time mankind has and if it's enough!
Though there will always exist fanatics on the edge of the Christian culture that will refuse to accept reality. That's probably true for a lot of religions too.
Personally, if Christians stay out of my life, I don't care if they like me or not. Probably the very same way they feel about me!

What "reality" is that?

Keeping to the OP, let's just take the wife and husband definition shall we? In reality. Which even in a common sense manner, instantly forms the the image of a man and a woman.

But oops . . .

A "wife" is the opposite gender person to a man in a "marriage." And a "husband" is the opposite gender person to a woman in a marriage.

Reality.

Or, is it?

Now, who are the intolerant ones?

In reality?

[99percentatheism]

Isn't it funny that man pretends to know what "God" despises? And it's always what mankind despises. Hmmmm...

I guess only the sinless can consider themselves "true Christians," eh?

This is one of the reasons that I've come to find it rather pointless to continue with these 'debates' and have rather chosen to step back in recent weeks. It would INDEED appear to be an accurate definition of 'the true Christian' that it's not only 'the other person' who is 'the sinner' but it's also the task of the 'true' Christian to continually tell them so and to rub their nose in it. So, yes, it would appear that the 'true' Christian considers him/herself to be 'sinless' ...certainly pious. This, in and of itself, is completely contrary to the simple message of the Gospel, i.e. Jesus.

Also, yes ...God appears to despise the very same things that 'the true Christian' despises. Attempting to debate a topic with anyone who is not only closed-minded but also under the influence of 'religion' - i.e. the words from a book and oftentimes misinterpreted at that! - one might just as well debate with a rock.

Ahhh, but in the debating with an secularist or anti Christian, a brick can now be called a marshmellow if the brick feels that it was born that way.

Now to try to maintain that a Christian is closed minded is not in keeping with reality. A Christian, is a person that has made a decision to come from a lifestyle and a worldview and choose a better one by choosing and maintaining the Christian one. Per the Gospels. That would certainly not be coming from a closed minded action.

It is absolutely provable that a Christian marriage and appropriate Christian sexual behavior is to be maintained in the immutable coupling of an opposite gender
"married" couples. So, it would the gay agenda and its legion of proponents that holds to the wrong interpretation of scripture, if that charge is to made and validated from the Bible.

[99percentatheism]

KCKID

[Replying to post 421 by 99percentatheism]

When I followed Christianity, I too got caught up in 'rules' and 'standards.' But I was quickly reminded by my pastor at that time that 'only God knows a person's heart.'

So, while I'm now an atheist, I still remember that conversation with him, and should a god exist (I'm open minded)...he/it is the only one who truly knows a person's heart.

Being an atheist for the majority of my life, and now moved on from that all-too-limited worldview and having chosen Christian reality, your Pastor would agree with me that you can most definitely "judge" a persons behavior and worldviews. And should if sensibility is still important. Otherwise your Pastor isn't in charge of a Church but just some large room where any kind of people can gather without any way of guiding them as a Pastor.

You've mentioned (almost flaunted) your conversion from atheism to Christianity a number of times on the forum. Tell me, what was it about the tyrannical blood-lusting 'creator' as described in the Old Testament* that appealed to you to the extent that you gave up your belief of atheism and instead chose to 'follow' this particular deity?

You seem to desire to address me personally so often. And I think I have said that I am not here to convert anyone. My positions are based squarely to support believers. Not waste the dust on my shoes. Why can't you just prove your theology in our debates? Just show one homosexual couple getting married IN the Bible that was celebrated by anyone? Show clear and unambiguous support and condoning of gay pride and gay culture anywhere in the Bible OLD TESTAMENT OR NEW?

Also, what is it about the simple message of Jesus of the New Testament that instructs us not to judge or to condemn our neighbor but rather to 'love' them that you find so hard to grasp?

That is an incorrect position that you hold. It is more an urban legend of factoid than it is truth. Christian life is not about embracing orgies and licentiousness. It is clearly to reject both. BY JUDGING what is and what isn't "right" for a Christian to do. Your ideology is more found in hippy life than a Christian life. If what you demand is found in a Christian, it is oftentimes called hypocrisy because the Christian is doing something a Christian shouldn't do.

For example: It would be the height of folly and a threat of hell, to love someone's choice to reject Jesus.

* I don't believe for one second that a 'Creator of ALL things' would have the bizarre, the cruel and the hysterical characteristics of the OT God.

And that is your right. And with it comes consequences that I do not have to bear.

I do believe, however, that such a scary character might well have been constructed by ancient man with which to control others through fear . . .

How fascinating that you didn't, or can't, see how the very "story" in and of the Bible is shown to be an utter failure. Just like as if it were dealing with real people in real life??? God, did everything for his people INCLUDING miracles, threats, warnings, consequences and actions, and yet they still "sinned." Sooooooo, as the story goes, it IS that God had to "pay the price" of all that sin and rejection Himself. That sounds like love to me.

And the very fact that all that failure and gore is front and center in a "religion" that is supposed to be for and about real human beings attaining righteousness is not whitewashed out . . . like you see soooooo much propaganda does it through human stories . . . I can't make the choice to believe it is fantasy. Good, bad and indifference? That IS reality I can see in every day life every day.

I chose Christ out of the fact that reality is reality. I looked at my own life and the real life of other real people in the real world.

Bingo.

[Deidre32]

[Replying to post 432 by 99percentatheism]

ahhhh...but marriage was not invented by religion. it comes from pagan rituals. Christianity hijacked the concept of marriage, nothing more or less.

[99percentatheism]

Deidre32
[Replying to post 432 by 99percentatheism]

ahhhh...but marriage was not invented by religion. it comes from pagan rituals.

And you have facts to back that up? "pagan rituals?" That sounds like religion to me.

The configuration that I am addressing "from the Bible" is what Jesus referred to from God "at the beginning. Which is what anyone can see is a marriage. For this reason . . . a man will cleave to his "wife." There is no such thing as same gender marriage in Christian reality.

Christianity hijacked the concept of marriage, nothing more or less.

Per Jesus, the guy that is most important to "The Church," the configuration of a marriage as man and wife, is of opposite genders. And since Jesus IS God, he invented the style of coupling for Christians to follow. It would be far more accurate in your estimation, to say that LGBT's have hijacked the configuration of Christian marriage.

And you know the word "church" is of pagan origin right? Ekklesia is the more accurate label for the congregation of believers of Christ.

Be that as it may, "Christian marriage" is man and woman/husband and wife. No need for the "mainstream Christianity" to be forced to accept the gay agenda.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 435 by 99percentatheism]
So is "christian reality" a delusion of sorts because I am pretty confident that there were marriages before the 4th century. The Romans and Greeks even had gay marriage! Oh that's right when Christianity took over as the official religion of the empire they even had to make a law specifically banning gay marriage.

Lets get our timelines straight.


Roman Kingdom begins 753 BC

Archaic period of Greece 800BC

Jesus~0-16CE

Christianity official state religion Feb. 380 CE


yeah gay marriage has about a 1000 years on Christianity in the west?

Also was marriage only invented in Europe? Did the Chinese, Japanese, Mongols, Russians, Mayans, Aztecs, Native Americans, and Africans not have marriage before Christianity?

In fact shocking I know even polygynous marriage existed!! especially in areas where the male infant mortality rate was high. In other words in some portions of our history there were a lot more females than males and this became a common practice.


Monogomous Christian marriage only exists in western countries and in recent history. Yeah sorry bud but history disagrees with you. Really you kinda have to be blind to the world around you because all sorts of marriages are happening all over the world.