6000 years of history

[RonE]

6000 years of recorded history, it seems to me that if there were gods (or God), by now we would all know. Science has found no place for god in any hypothesis explaining the laws of nature.

We are presented with two alternatives, either there are no gods or they are hiding, playing tricks on us trying to test us, but really why would such powerful beings need or want to do that. Occam’s razor points us to the obvious answer, simple… no one is there.

Let’s move out of kindergarten and make believe, let’s feed the poor and starving, let’s put hate and war out of business.

What say you?

[dianaiad]

6000 years of recorded history, it seems to me that if there were gods (or God), by now we would all know. Science has found no place for god in any hypothesis explaining the laws of nature.

We are presented with two alternatives, either there are no gods or they are hiding, playing tricks on us trying to test us, but really why would such powerful beings need or want to do that. Occam’s razor points us to the obvious answer, simple… no one is there.

Let’s move out of kindergarten and make believe, let’s feed the poor and starving, let’s put hate and war out of business.

What say you?

Sounds good to me.

Well, the 'feeding the poor and starving," and the "put hate and war out of business' part does, anyway.

Er....what makes you think that getting rid of beliefs in god and religion would do this?

Because, quite honestly, all attempts to do this have, historically, ended up in more starving people, considerably more poverty, a lot of hate and a technical ramp up of war that would have made Sun Tzu blink.

............but don't mind me. What do I know? I just read history.

[RonE]

[Replying to post 2 by dianaiad]

The truth will set you free, and knowledge is truth. The way out of stone age thinking is knowledge, education.

[Elijah John]

6000 years of recorded history, it seems to me that if there were gods (or God), by now we would all know. Science has found no place for god in any hypothesis explaining the laws of nature.

We are presented with two alternatives, either there are no gods or they are hiding, playing tricks on us trying to test us, but really why would such powerful beings need or want to do that. Occam’s razor points us to the obvious answer, simple… no one is there.

Let’s move out of kindergarten and make believe, let’s feed the poor and starving, let’s put hate and war out of business.

What say you?

"No place for God?" How about as the first cause, that place seems currently unoccupied by science as well? Could be either, Blind chance, "dumb luck", something out of nothing, consciousness out of unconsciousness, life out of the non-living, seems more unlikely to me than an eternally pre-existent Creative intelligence, greater than our own, who got the ball rolling, with His laws of physics and evolution as tools

Seems to me that is a greater leap of faith than to believe in a greater being than ourselves....else you are saying we are the smartest things in the Universe, or some space aliens are. Simple observation given the state of the world and all, kinda suggests that ain't true.

Not the sqme as saying that a storybook God is the cause or all that is. You may be rejecting a God that is not done full justice in the Bible. But that ain't the only conception of God under the sun.

And as a request, please refrain from characterizing those who disagree with you as having a "kindergarten" mentality. That comes across as condescending and uncivil, and is in fact, reportable.

Also, it is a RELIGOUS imperative to feed the hungry and help the poor, not just an atheist one. That is, if the religous live up to their calling.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 2 by dianaiad]

The truth will set you free, and knowledge is truth. The way out of stone age thinking is knowledge, education.

Ah, yes...John 8:32.

Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

Of course, then you have the problems of:

Are you certain it's the truth you're believing, then?
Is it certain you are that religions have not, in any way whatsoever, feed the hungry, helped the poor, or mitigated against war,

............while atheistic (not secular, which includes freedom of religion, including the freedom to believe, or not as one wills) cultures are uniformly peaceful, loving, caring, helpful, bunny hugging cultures than which none more safe or prosperous could be found?

There's no way, for instance, that one could point out the difference between Maoist China and, say, the Quakers or the Salvation Army, and make you go "wait...what?"

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 5 by dianaiad] Come to think of it, have their been ANY atheist utopias? Any that have been successful and non-violent either in their inception or their governance?

[ttruscott]

6000 years of recorded history, it seems to me that if there were gods (or God), by now we would all know. Science has found no place for god in any hypothesis explaining the laws of nature.

The scientific method has only been in use for what, 400 years? Just a youngster, eh?

We are presented with two alternatives, either there are no gods or they are hiding,

Isaiah 45:15 Truly you are a God who has been hiding himself, the God and Savior of Israel.

Why? So that we can live by faith, an unproven hope. Why is faith so important? If GOD proved HIMself in all HIS glory, that proof would carry all decisions and coerce our free will. Therefore HE hides HIMself at the same time, by asking for an unproven faith, HE finds every person who wants what HE has to offer, the chance at the bliss of the heavenly communion forever by their own free will choice. Only by faith as an unproven hope can the heart be divided to the tiniest degree and the person create his exact place in his relationship with GOD himself.

Occam's simplest explanation only has value if no other explanation has credibility. If faith is not credible then what is the proof it is not credible that makes the supposition not a faith based decision itself?

Let’s move out of kindergarten and make believe, let’s feed the poor and starving, let’s put hate and war out of business.

What say you?

I say AMEN! Let the judgement day come! Nothing else can overcome the sinful evil of men, no politics, no religion.

Peace, Ted

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 5 by dianaiad] Come to think of it, have their been ANY atheist utopias? Any that have been successful and non-violent either in their inception or their governance?

Nope.

But then I'm the first one to admit that there haven't been any theist utopias, either. At least, none that actually stayed that way for more than a year or three.

We humans are a rather nasty lot, all things considered.

However, I think it's fair to say that theism has more attempts at it.

[RonE]

[Replying to post 7 by ttruscott]

If faith is not credible then what is the proof it is not credible

Faith is the assumption of truth when evidence is absent (sometimes in contradiction to evidence). This absence of evidence is evidence of absence of truth. So faith in itself is evidence of falseness. Therefore, faith is not a road to truth, but instead a road to falseness.

Peace

[RonE]

[Replying to post 4 by Elijah John]

"No place for God?"

My actual quote was "Science has found no place for god in any hypothesis explaining the laws of nature". Which is completely true, or can you provide one I've missed? As to the origin of the universe there are lots of ideas but I don't believe any have made it as far as being a scientific hypothesis.

And as a request, please refrain from characterizing those who disagree with you as having a "kindergarten" mentality. That comes across as condescending and uncivil, and is in fact, reportable.

Let me ask you, when were you first were taught of god? Age 4 or 5, maybe six. That's where the indoctrination usually starts, the words "kindergarten mentality" are yours, you shouldn't put words in someone's mouth and then be angry about them.

Peace