Jesus teaching on hell

[Elijah John]

Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-moon ... lp00000592

The article basically holds that hell is "outer darkness" and is reserved for the Pharasees in Jesus teaching, and that Jesus cares more about doing good than believing right, according to his parables.

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

[Zzyzx]

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Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

Agree -- good article that might cause some to think (and cause others to become indignant and defensive).

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

It is far easier to profess to "believe correctly" than to live righteously -- and thus it is easier to sell / promote a religion that does not require good works but only that one believe preachers and prophets. Profits go to the popular and effortless is appealing.

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

From words attributed to Jesus it would appear as though he would be opposed to much or most of today's theology, church hierarchy, and rule by occupying powers. It seems as though he would not condemn non-believers " and would condemn hypocrites

[ThePainefulTruth]

There's this intersting quote from the article:
"When Jesus talked about separation, he was talking in regards to the works of man, and it was those who failed this test of works in his stories that were not included into the Kingdom of Heaven. In these examples, time after time, Jesus did not talk about one's lack of faith, but a lack of one's own good works."

This is the argument that continues between Jesus' brother and successor, James, and Paul.

I've stated elsewhere that Hell is incongruent with the idea a loving God. How could God and all the one's in heaven that were recorded in the Book of Life from the beginning of time, go through eternity knowing that eternal torture was going on. For those who can't bare the light of Truth, oblivion would be their humane option.

[dianaiad]

Do you have any idea at all what an incredible opening this is to be a missionary for Mormonism?

But I won't.

I won't.

I'll be good.....

[bluethread]

Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-moon ... lp00000592

The article basically holds that hell is "outer darkness" and is reserved for the Pharasees in Jesus teaching, and that Jesus cares more about doing good than believing right, according to his parables.

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

I have presented my views on this in several threads, but here is a short presentation of my views. Apart from parables and visions, the Scriptures seem to refer to specific places here on earth, when they refer to the afterlife. For example the term "hell" is an old English term that is derived from the various northern European mythologies. It is used in the KJV as a translation of "Hades" which comes from Greek mythology. The reason that term in used in the Greek manuscripts, in my view, is as a linguistic accommodation and not an equating of that which is presented in the Tanakh with that which is presented in Greek mythology. All of this has caused much confusion with regard to what the Tanakh has to say about the afterlife, which is the framework of the teachings of Yeshua and His talmudim. The presentation of the places of the afterlife in empirical terms in the Tanakh is the root of one of the main disputes between the Sadducees and The Pharisees, Yeshua being aligned with the Pharisees on this issue. The issue being whether or not there actually is an afterlife.

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

It depends on why He would be here today. However, if we presume that he were here for similar reasons to those of the first time, I would say that He would pretty much ignore the nonbelievers and spend most of His time both encouraging and correcting His followers. When theologians who are not His followers would challenge Him, as many do here on this sight, He would address them directly and would not pull any punches. That's what I think anyway.

[myth-one.com]

Excellent article on the Huffington Post recently:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-moon ... lp00000592

The article basically holds that hell is "outer darkness" and is reserved for the Pharasees in Jesus teaching, and that Jesus cares more about doing good than believing right, according to his parables.

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Those who do not BELIEVE "correctly" or those who practice unrighteousness?

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

The location of hell in the Bible is "outer darkness:"

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 22:13)

And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30)

Terms such as "cast" and "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" indicate that these verses refer to hell:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (hell). (Revelation 20:15)

If these verses refer to hell, then hell is located in outer darkness. But as an indicator of location within our universe this has no meaning. If the universe is infinite, then from any point in the universe one can travel infinitely in all directions and never reach the end of the universe. Thus, outer and inner have no meaning as locations.

"Outer darkness" indicates the state of death. That is, the darkest of dark, without any light or cognizance. The dead know not anything:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

"Outer darkness" is the best description of hell as regards man, since all men cast into the lake of fire (hell) instantly suffer their second death. This is the everlasting end of their existence. They will never live again.

Thus, outer darkness.

I've stated elsewhere that Hell is incongruent with the idea a loving God. How could God and all the one's in heaven that were recorded in the Book of Life from the beginning of time, go through eternity knowing that eternal torture was going on. For those who can't bare the light of Truth, oblivion would be their humane option.

Eternal torture is never going to exist. But one, and only one, being will be tormented for all eternity:

And the Devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

For any man or woman, the wages of sin is death (or oblivion as you say) -- not everlasting torture:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

And the best way to describe this everlasting punishment of nonbelievers in the scriptures was by using the words "outer darkness."

Jesus would not be lambasting anyone today. All is going as the Bible prophesies predicted.

[Elijah John]

Do you have any idea at all what an incredible opening this is to be a missionary for Mormonism?

But I won't.

I won't.

I'll be good.....

Please do...I for one would be curious to learn about the position of LDS doctrine on the teachings of Heaven and hell.

I bet others would too.

Heck, if the Literalist and exclusionary Trinitarians weigh in, it is certainly your right too!

[ThePainefulTruth]

Do you have any idea at all what an incredible opening this is to be a missionary for Mormonism?

But I won't.

I won't.

I'll be good.....

Who me? If so, I'm not sure what you're getting at. What opening?

[atheist buddy]

Question for debate...What is the nature of hell, and who is it reserved for?

Hell is an imaginary place, reserved for imaginary creatures, kinda like Narnia and Middle Earth.

The evidence that hell is imaginary is overwhelming. The evidence that it is real is nill.

And secondary question, who do you think Jesus would be lambasting today? Unbelievers or folks who preach exclusionary theology in his name?

Jesus was an illiterate iron age carpenter. If he was around today, he would be waaaaay too freaked out by alarm clocks and cars and aspirin, to be lambasting anybody.

Any one of us, armed with nothing more than our iPhone, could easily convince Jesus that WE are God, and that he must serve us, otherwise we will erase his soul, which we captured with the iCamera app. Any Fart app would be sufficient to convince him that we've captured a bunch of other people in our iPhone already and that we're torturing them by making them constipated.

Also, let's not forget that people back then were much much smaller. Jesus was probably 4 feet tall. That means that the average Japanese girl could have kicked Jesus's butt in a one on one match, and the average dude pumping iron in a gym in America could have lifted the cross, with Jesus nailed to it, with one hand.

So, no, jesus would be way too busy to be lambasting anybody. And that's before we take him to Disney Land.

[Danmark]

Jesus was an illiterate iron age carpenter. If he was around today, he would be waaaaay too freaked out by alarm clocks and cars and aspirin, to be lambasting anybody.

Any one of us, armed with nothing more than our iPhone, could easily convince Jesus that WE are God, and that he must serve us, otherwise we will erase his soul, which we captured with the iCamera app. Any Fart app would be sufficient to convince him that we've captured a bunch of other people in our iPhone already and that we're torturing them by making them constipated.

Also, let's not forget that people back then were much much smaller. Jesus was probably 4 feet tall. That means that the average Japanese girl could have kicked Jesus's butt in a one on one match, and the average dude pumping iron in a gym in America could have lifted the cross, with Jesus nailed to it, with one hand.

So, no, jesus would be way too busy to be lambasting anybody. And that's before we take him to Disney Land.

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