Who Represents Christianty?

[Divine Insight]

Isn't the Church of Christianity supposed to represent Jesus?

Didn't Jesus hang around with sinners proclaiming that sinners are the ones who need salvation the most?

If so, then shouldn't "Christian Churches" embrace sinners and invite them openly into their congregations?

Question for debate: Why do so many Christian Churches renounce sinners and refuse to allow them to be part of their Church of Christ?

Shouldn't they be welcoming sinners above all others as Jesus did?

[Wordleymaster1]

Isn't the Church of Christianity supposed to represent Jesus?

Didn't Jesus hang around with sinners proclaiming that sinners are the ones who need salvation the most?

If so, then shouldn't "Christian Churches" embrace sinners and invite them openly into their congregations?

Question for debate: Why do so many Christian Churches renounce sinners and refuse to allow them to be part of their Church of Christ?

Shouldn't they be welcoming sinners above all others as Jesus did?

Christians are a hypocritical bunch. They LOVE to segregate themselves from others and look down on those different frommy experience. I see it blantanly on this very site, though we needn't look much further than our own local churches to see this to be very true.
Christianity isn't very Christ-like in today's world. It's more of a social club - clique maybe even - than a place to welcome sinners. Today's Christians aren't very Christ-like in my eyes (though there are always exceptions).
So why do so many churches do what you claim?
Because they care LESS about the souls of the lost than their own glory and status. Church history reflects this and, as modern as we are and as advanced as we'd like to THINK churche society is, they are no better than those worthless blobs of church leadership from days of old.
Christians have strayed SO far away from Christ (just look at all the examples of a divided house: Mormons, Catholics, JWs, Methodists, 7tsDA's the list goes on) and divergent in their views of 'the one true way' they can't see the forrest for the trees even if they run smack into the biggest tree in the forrest.
Christianity isn't about winning sinner's sould for "the Lord" today - it's about ME ME ME ME and MY eternal life.
Which is, in my view, pitiful and down right shameful

[Freddy_Scissorhands]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

I think that this has to do with the fact, that no institutions wants to have people who give them a bad reputation.
If there are "bad people" in the church, than this would mean that the church backs them up and also kind of states a support behind those people. And in reality, this is a bad thing. So, if you have the conflict between your saviors teachings (who you might give lip-service to) and the ACTUAL consequences of reality, where your church might look bad... then it's clear how the priorities will be set.

[Elijah John]

I think the premise of the OP question is false. Christian Churches by and large DO welcome "sinners" into their midst. They do not advocate sinful behavior,,,there is a difference.

Yes, the cliche is true, love the sinner hate the sin.

As to what is sin and what is not, that is another question entirely.

[Zzyzx]

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I think the premise of the OP question is false. Christian Churches by and large DO welcome "sinners" into their midst. They do not advocate sinful behavior,,,there is a difference.

There are several prominent examples of the opposite. Some are urban legends but here is one that www.snopes.com indicates is true.

Similarly, in November 2013 Mormon bishop David Musselman posed as a homeless man and interacted with congregants outside a Taylorsville, Utah, church before services one Sunday:
Members of a Mormon congregation in a Salt Lake City suburb encountered someone they thought was a homeless man at church on Sunday. What they did not know was the man was a bishop for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

At least five people asked David Musselman to leave the church property in Taylorsville, some gave him money and most were indifferent.

He said he disguised himself as a homeless man to teach his congregation a lesson about compassion. To make his appearance more convincing, he contacted a Salt Lake City makeup artist to transform his familiar face to that of a stranger not even his family recognized.

"The main thing I was trying to get across was we don't need to be so quick to judge," Musselman said.

He received varied reactions to his appearance at church, he said.

"Many actually went out of their way to purposefully ignore me, and they wouldn't even make eye contact," he said. "I'd approach them and say, 'Happy Thanksgiving.' Many of them I wouldn't ask for any food or any kind of money, and their inability to even acknowledge me being there was very surprising."

Bishop Musselman told only his second counselor that he would be disguised as a homeless man. The bishop purposefully walked to the front of the chapel and sat in the front row at the beginning of sacrament meeting. After his counselor's talk, the bishop had his counselor lean forward over the stand and he asked through a whisper if he could say a few words.
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/homelesspastor.asp

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 5 by Zzyzx]

That might just be an outlier, I am open about my atheism and my wife is a Christian we move a lot and I help her find a church when we move. I have never been turned away for being an Atheist during this process, mind you we also live in the deep south. Although I reckon being turned away has less to do with sin and more to do about class and race.

[Overcomer]

Well, first of all, Mormons aren't Christians so citing them as an example of a "Christian" church that had a problem with someone disguised as a homeless man doesn't represent Christianity at all. But the "Mormons are not Christians" argument is an altogether different issue so I won't belabour it.

Sadly, I was in a church where outsiders were not welcome. The youth pastor was bringing street kids into the church to give them a safe place to be and a sense of family that they didn't have. Some of the parents were outraged. They didn't want those kinds of kids (some swore, some had drug and alcohol problems, etc. ) influencing their kids and said they would take their kids out of the youth group if those kids didn't go.

That disgusted me. The church is not a social club for "nice" people. It's a place for everybody, no matter who they are and what they have done. The reality is that all of us are sinners and those parents who didn't want "those kinds of kids" in the church were sinners themselves -- yet nobody asked them to leave. The youth pastor quit and went to another church where, I hope, he was allowed to bring all kinds of kids into the fold. I left that church myself.

I think the sad thing is that we expect the problem kids to negatively influence our kids. Why can't our kids positively influence the problem kids? But that's an issue for another thread as well.

I have also been in churches with tremendous outreach programs who purposely go after the so-called "undesirables" of society. They welcome the homeless, the alcoholics, the broken and the lost. They follow what was preached in James 2:1-4:

My brothers and sisters, believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ must not show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, Heres a good seat for you, but say to the poor man, You stand there or Sit on the floor by my feet, have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Another verse, also in James, instructs the church to care for widows and orphans. For centuries, the church was the primary source of care for the poor, the sick, the homeless, etc. It is only recently, with the rise of social welfare, that the government has gotten involved in these issues. The church has, sadly, relinquished some of its care-giving duties to the government.

So yes, there are churches where the congregants act like they are the elite and only certain people can join them. They do NOT follow God's Word or honour Christ in being like that. But there are others that do follow what the Bible says and welcome everyone, no matter who they are, with welcome arms.

Bear in mind that NO church has any perfect people in them and, therefore, there will always be mistakes made by any given church. When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, that Holy Spirit directs him to grow and be like Christ. But the process of becoming like Jesus lasts a lifetime and we all have our "old selves" to wrestle with as we have to grow from baby Christians into mature ones.

Also remember that just because somebody attends a church, that doesn't make him a Christian. It is being reborn in Christ and entering into a relationship with God through the person of Jesus Christ by the infilling of the Spirit that makes one a Christian. There are always people in churches who never enter into that relationship and, therefore, aren't working in the power of the Holy Spirit at all.

Churches are a mixed bag just as society is.

[bishblaize]

[Replying to Divine Insight]

To be honest I'd question if this is true. My own experience in inner city work is that churches are one of the constant presences in the most challenging areas, alongside charities. So anecdotally at least it doesn't ring true. (I wouldn't say every church was equally good of course.)

Is that based on your own experiences, or from something else you've seen or heard?

[1213]

...Shouldn't they be welcoming sinners above all others as Jesus did?

I think yes, but for them, it should be said as Jesus said: "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more." John 8:11

But do you think they would like to hear that?

[Divine Insight]

Is that based on your own experiences, or from something else you've seen or heard?

Actually this thread was inspired by strong anti-gay posts being made on these forums where the Christian is refusing to allow gays to become members of their church.

It suddenly dawned on me that this behavior is much like the Pharisees who have taken over God's temple and have become the authority of the church, rather than allowing God to be the authority.

In the case of Christianity it seems to me that Jesus should be the authority. and that Christians who refuse to allow anyone who is coming to Jesus into their chruch is actually standing between that person and Jesus. They are passing judgement on Jesus' behalf.

It would seem to me that if a gay person wants to attend a Christian Church then they must be "Coming to Jesus". Otherwise why would they want to be part of a Christian Church if not to worship God through Jesus as God's only begotten son.

If there is any judgment of sin to be done, shouldn't that be left up to Jesus?

Why should Christians stand between Jesus and people they have judged to be sinners?

Why don't they allow Jesus to be the judge?

Isn't Jesus the judge in Christianity?

My King James Bible says the following:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

At what point did the Father commit all judgement to the congregations of Churches?

Why should members of churches stand between Jesus and someone they believe to be a sinner who is actually reaching out to Jesus?

Shouldn't they encourage people to come to Jesus and leave any moral judgements up to Jesus?

Why should Christians feel a need to stand between Jesus and people they believe to be sinners?

That makes no sense.