Do you believe in God?

atheist buddy · Post by **atheist buddy** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:20 pm

Hi, this is just a basic poll. I'd just like to get the sense of how many theists and atheists there are on this forum.

Feel free to add comments if you like, but primarily please answer the poll question.

Thanks
AB

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:48 pm

For me the question is unclear. What exactly do you mean by "God"?

If you are asking me if I believe there is a mystical magical essence to reality, then my answer is yes. Does that equate to a belief in a "God"? That I can't say until you define what you mean by the term "God".

I definitely do not believe in the God described in the Bible if that's what you are asking. But I might believe in other concepts of "God" from other mystical philosophies. Or at least believe in the plausibility of those concepts.

I don't believe I can know the truth of reality ultimately. So I don't really have any rock solid "beliefs". I plead agnosticism when it come to knowing the truth of reality.

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:46 pm

I voted no. As much as I'd love to believe in a loving, caring God who has the whole world in his hands, I am just simply unable to believe it.

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:20 pm

OnceConvinced wrote: I voted no. As much as I'd love to believe in a loving, caring God who has the whole world in his hands, I am just simply unable to believe it.

Technically I can easily check "no" as the answer to this question as well.

Whilst I believe that some concepts of "God" are plausible, and based on various philosophies I've read I can't rule them out, I think I can still check this question as "no". Simply because believing that a particular God concept might be plausible is not the same as actually believing that it exists.

I don't know whether a "god" exists or not. And so I guess that actually qualifies as a "no" in answer to the question "Do you believe in a God?"

But I confess that in answering "no" it seems to imply that I'm actually saying that I am convinced that no "god concept" exists. And I don't like to support that view.

Intuitively I feel that something mystical is going on. So in that sense one could say that I intuitively "believe" in a god in terms of feelings. But I confess that intellectually it's hard to imagine why any "god" would have bothered creating the world as it is.

I mean, the mystics have some pretty darn good excuses for why a god might have created reality precisely as it is. But I confess, that as good as those excuses are, they're still pretty hard to swallow.

I must confess that pure secular atheism does make the most 'sense'.

I mean, if pure secular atheism is true, then none of the nasty stuff in life needs an explanation. In fact, if anything, it would be more difficult to explain why some things are as nice as they actually are. Pure secular atheism has just the opposite problem of religions. Pure secular atheism has the problem of how things could have come to be as cool as they are by pure random chance. And by that I don't mean that evolution is pure random chance, but rather the laws of physics are pure random chance to have even allowed things to evolve as cool as they are.

The problem with life is that both the nasty stuff and the great stuff are equally hard to explain. So ironically I can answer both of the following questions with "No"

Do you believe in God? "No"

Do you believe in a pure secular materialistic world? "No".

So there you have it. I don't believe in anything.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:39 pm

I voted yes, but I do not believe that Jesus IS God.

dianaiad · Post by **dianaiad** » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:56 pm

Interesting how a simple question can get all complicated....

good poll, though.

Would you mind very much, atheist buddy, if I chimed in on this, since those who are having problems with it want you to define 'god?"

How about this:

"God" equals any definition of any self aware being who is either: creator of all things, partial creator of all things, possibly didn't create anything but which is different from you and can, even if he/she/it doesn't choose to do so, mess you up but you can't mess him/her/it up in return.

this deity can be personal, singular and interfering, or nebulous, impossible to describe and couldn't care less. There could be more than one.

You know, at least one deity. Perhaps, for the purposes of the poll, we could throw in a dead ancestor in the mix.

Or protective nature spirits.

You know, something that ain't us and ain't, strictly, mortal?

As for me, yes, I believe in God; a very specific, anthropomorphic (we are supposed to have been created in His image, after all) Father God Who created the universe, and we are His kids.

I do not, however, expect my definition of Him to be considered the only possible definition of God as He is worshiped by anybody else.

FarWanderer · Post by **FarWanderer** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:18 pm

I voted "no" under the assumption that we are talking about a personal God.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:46 pm

FarWanderer wrote: I voted "no" under the assumption that we are talking about a personal God.

Never quite sure what folks mean when they say a "personal" God that they disbelieve in. Do they (you) mean an anthropomorphic King in the sky with a long white beard, or an almighty Spirit, the ground of being who is conscious of his Creation and cares about it.?

I was at the a conference once and someone said "God has no more awareness than does an equation".

I completely disagree with that statement, is that a description of a NON personal God?

Divine Insight · Post by **Divine Insight** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Elijah John wrote: Never quite sure what folks mean when they say a "personal" God that they disbelieve in. Do they (you) mean an anthropomorphic King in the sky with a long white beard, or an almighty Spirit, the ground of being who is conscious of his Creation and cares about it.?

I agree. I never could understand why Christians think of their God as a "personal" God. It seems to me that an external God who is willing to cast a person into hell is about as impersonal as a God can be.

On the other than hand, nothing could be more "personal" than the God of mysticism of which we are thought to be a direct manifestation. Nothing could be more "personal" than being a facet of the Mind of God.

Elijah John wrote: I was at the a conference once and someone said "God has no more awareness than does an equation".

I completely disagree with that statement, is that a description of a NON personal God?

I'm not sure if that would be a non-personal God. But it would surely be a concept of a life-force that has no awareness outside of our awareness. And that too is entertained in various mystical philosophies. I believe that concept of God is called "animism". And actually that concept of "God" would be the God of pure secular materialism.

Materialists probably don't realize it, but they are actually animists.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:09 pm

[Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]

Just to be clear, I know what I mean by "personal God" just not sure what others mean by the term. Especially folks who disbelieve in a "personal God" Not sure what it is exactly they are rejecting.

For me, my personal understanding of the Personal God, is that He is pure Spirit, aware and caring of His Creation...but generally non-interventionist, except for governing the Universe through His laws of phyics, nature and evolution. And governing human affairs through free will, Reason implanted in good people, and Wisdom.