Is God logically possible?

[atheist buddy]

Please consider the Bible passages below:

God is love - 1 John 4:8
Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4
The Lord thy God is a jealous God - Deuteronomy 6:15


That's like saying this:

Skippy is a cat
Cats are not dogs
Skippy is a dog

Logically impossible. Therefore God does not exist.

Question for debate: Is there any way to escape the fact that the Biblical attributes of God are logically contradictory and clearly violate the Law of Identity? Is there any way to come to any conclusion other than that God, as described in the Bible, doesn't exist?

[Freddy_Scissorhands]

[Replying to post 1 by atheist buddy]

This is not the only impossibility the christian god has.
Apparently he is also infinetly mercifull. And also perfectly just...
Which are also contradiction, because being mercifull means that you forgive and don't require the deserved punishment for something bad. And being just implies that you actually do require the accurate payment.

He apparently is unchanging, and yet he loses patience many times in the bible, he can get angry and then calmed down again, he can change his mind, if asked for something...

He is all-powerfull which is a contradictory concept in itself.

So, no, the god from a literal reading of the bible is completly impossible in many, many ways.

[atheist buddy]

[Replying to post 1 by atheist buddy]

This is not the only impossibility the christian god has.
Apparently he is also infinetly mercifull. And also perfectly just...
Which are also contradiction, because being mercifull means that you forgive and don't require the deserved punishment for something bad. And being just implies that you actually do require the accurate payment.

He apparently is unchanging, and yet he loses patience many times in the bible, he can get angry and then calmed down again, he can change his mind, if asked for something...

He is all-powerfull which is a contradictory concept in itself.

So, no, the god from a literal reading of the bible is completly impossible in many, many ways.

Not to mention he is omnipotent and omniscient, which are also mutually exclusive.

[arian]

Please consider the Bible passages below:

God is love - 1 John 4:8
Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4
The Lord thy God is a jealous God - Deuteronomy 6:15


That's like saying this:

Skippy is a cat
Cats are not dogs
Skippy is a dog

What? Lets take another look at what you just said making cat equal to love (as you suggested) and make dogs equal to suicidal;

Skippy is a cat (cat=love)
cats (love) are not dogs (dog=suicidal)
love is suicidal

Lets continue;
man is suicidal
this man doesn't believe in suicide
this is not a man, lol

God is love, love is not jealous because love is love, but God IS a jealous God, and He is NOT love when He casts the wicked into hell. Burning in hell for an eternity is not a show of love, but a sign of evil. God can and does evil things to evil people, but will show love and compassion to those that seek good.

Logically impossible. Therefore God does not exist.

And you call that logic?
So if they say you are a 'happy fella', and you wake up one morning all grouchy, you no longer exist? "That's not the happy fella that we know, who is this grouchy guy?"

Question for debate: Is there any way to escape the fact that the Biblical attributes of God are logically contradictory and clearly violate the Law of Identity? Is there any way to come to any conclusion other than that God, as described in the Bible, doesn't exist?

The god as described by atheist buddy surely doesn't exist. We already have something like 38,000 Christian Religiously created god-concepts, must you add more to it?

My son just showed me a t-shirt that said; "Number One Star Wars Fan" with a picture of the Star Trek USS Enterprise on the bottom of it. This OP reminds me of that.

My humble suggestion would be for you to read and try to understand the God of the Bible first, then show He doesn't exist, because the god you are describing is NOT the Bible God.

[arian]

[Replying to post 1 by atheist buddy]

This is not the only impossibility the christian god has.
Apparently he is also infinetly mercifull. And also perfectly just...
Which are also contradiction, because being mercifull means that you forgive and don't require the deserved punishment for something bad. And being just implies that you actually do require the accurate payment.

It is obvious you haven't read, or maybe just didn't understand the God of the Bible. In the OT it goes on and on and on about the required sacrifice needed for sin (doing evil). It was doves, then for bigger sins it was lamb, and for deadly sins it was to be stoned to death. One way or another we have to 'pay' for our sins. Back in the OT days, people would repeatedly bring sacrifices before the Lord for their sins. I have never read in the OT where one dove, or one lamb covered multitude of sins, until we read of the arrival of the Messiah in the NT scriptures. (please read it, I can't sum up everything here)

God IS just, and pure, .. and Holy, and the payment for sin, .. ANY sin is death for both body and soul/spirit. We all die, and since the soul is eternal, hell is that eternal, everlasting death.

He apparently is unchanging, and yet he loses patience many times in the bible, he can get angry and then calmed down again, he can change his mind, if asked for something...

Yes He IS 'unchanging', you will never convince Him that good is evil, and that evil is good. I doubt that people who have chosen to go to hell will be enjoying themselves there; "Oh yea God! This is fun! Evil is fun God, you see us partying here? We brought nothing but evil in here, and we are having a blast sharing it with each other! Oh yea baby!!" .. I don't think so!?

He is all-powerfull which is a contradictory concept in itself.

So, no, the god from a literal reading of the bible is completly impossible in many, many ways.

Please show how Gods All Powerfulness is contradictory in the literal reading of the Bible??

[Divine Insight]

My humble suggestion would be for you to read and try to understand the God of the Bible first, then show He doesn't exist, because the god you are describing is NOT the Bible God.

The irony with this claim is two-fold.

First off, you are taking the position that Atheists Buddy has clearly NOT rejected the Biblical God. According to you what Atheist Buddy has rejected is a totally false and incorrect picture of the Biblical God.

And secondly you are implying that this supposedly omniscient perfect God is a complete buffoon in having inspired the writing of religious dogma that can so easily be misunderstood by so many people. Not only non-believers, but even believes themselves apparently cannot understand these texts, for if they could there wouldn't exist so many disagreeing versions of Christianity.

Christendom itself has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that the Bible is totally incomprehensible and could only have been inspired by a single supernatural buffoon, or by many individual mortal superstitious buffoons. The latter conclusion is the most reasonable of course.

[Inigo Montoya]

Please show how Gods All Powerfulness is contradictory in the literal reading of the Bible??

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God.�


Could God make Arian so proficient at debate that He Himself could not defeat him?

[Freddy_Scissorhands]

It is obvious you haven't read, or maybe just didn't understand the God of the Bible.

Oh, I certainly have read the bible! And all the things I've mentioned here are absolutly in there! Maybe YOU should read it, before questioning me.
Or have you read it and just "interpreted"... oh, sorry, I mean "properly understood" everything that didn't make sense, so that it eventually made sense?
It's funny that I always hear that I "don't understand the text", when all I did was actually do nothing more than take the things the text directly says!

In the OT it goes on and on and on about the required sacrifice needed for sin (doing evil). It was doves, then for bigger sins it was lamb, and for deadly sins it was to be stoned to death. One way or another we have to 'pay' for our sins.

Ok... and this contradicts what I've said... how?
In that case, this god was NOT mercifull! If the people had to pay, then god didn't show mercy, but rather justice (although: Killing ANOTHER creature, to pay for YOUR sins... what kind of messed-up "justice" system is that?).
That's EXACTLY what I've said in the comment you've responded to (which I have to wonder now: Have you read it?)

God IS just, and pure, .. and Holy, and the payment for sin, .. ANY sin is death for both body and soul/spirit. We all die, and since the soul is eternal, hell is that eternal, everlasting death.

And who came up with that rule?
Oh, right! God himself! So yeah, I'm not impressed that he is pure by his own standard!
Measured by more sensible standards, he is actually quite the monster! Demanding blood-sacrifices and stuff... Holy cow, this is messed up!
So, you can call him "pure" all you want, it's your judgment here! But sorry, I don't call blood-hungry dictators pure... or just...
And even IF I did, as I've mentioned before, this perfectly demonstrates what I've pointed out before:
In that case, it wouldn't be mercifull.

Yes He IS 'unchanging', you will never convince Him that good is evil, and that evil is good.

Or that his ways are actually evil and not good...
Yeah, I know that kind of mind-set. And it's quite a bad thing to have, if you are unwilling to change your mind.
But either way, this did NOT adress my objection EITHER!
Go back and read my comment again!
I NEVER said, that god wasn't just (I actually DO hold that position, but that wasn't part of my original poste) and I never said that god can't be unchanging either.
If you had read my poste you would have seen, that I object to the fact that he can be unchanging (as the bible claims) and still constantly be changing his mind, or that he can be perfeclty just AND perfectly mercifull at the same time! Because these things are in direct conflict!

I doubt that people who have chosen to go to hell...

I doubt that any such people exist, so your point seems mute.

I mean... I doubt that your hell, exists in the first place, but even if it did, I doubt that anybody choses to go there.

Please show how Gods All Powerfulness is contradictory in the literal reading of the Bible??

I never said it contradicted the bible.
AGAIN: READ what I've actually writen!
I wrote it's a contradiction IN ITSELF!

You can't be all-powerfull, because you automaticly run into contradiction!
If you were all-powerfull you could create something that is higher than your power (if you can't you are NOT all-powerfull, by definition), and and the same time, you would have to be able to be more powerfull than that thing you've created.
It's a logical contradiction. And I don't need any additional piece of the bible, to show that. It's the concept itself that doesn't make sense.

Btw: I would apprisiate it, if you respond again, that you actually adress the points I've made. Not the ones you've wanted me to make.
Thanks.

[Divine Insight]

Question for debate: Is there any way to escape the fact that the Biblical attributes of God are logically contradictory and clearly violate the Law of Identity? Is there any way to come to any conclusion other than that God, as described in the Bible, doesn't exist?

No. It's not possible to salvage the verbatim biblical picture of God.

Some people ask, "Can it be salvages if we are willing to ignore it verbatim and pretend that it says things that it actually doesn't say?"

I think even this second approach is actually quite futile since there wouldn't be much of the verbatim bible to salvage in this case. Moreover, whatever the result would be it clearly wouldn't be the biblical God anyway, it would obviously be something different.

So no, it's not possible to salvage the verbatim biblical picture of God.

As a second line of inquiry I would need to also ask why in the world anyone would even want to salvage the verbatim biblical picture of God, even if it could be made to make sense, which is already impossible anyway.

[atheist buddy]

Please consider the Bible passages below:

God is love - 1 John 4:8
Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4
The Lord thy God is a jealous God - Deuteronomy 6:15


That's like saying this:

Skippy is a cat
Cats are not dogs
Skippy is a dog

What? Lets take another look at what you just said making cat equal to love (as you suggested) and make dogs equal to suicidal;

Skippy is a cat (cat=love)
cats (love) are not dogs (dog=suicidal)
love is suicidal

Lets continue;
man is suicidal
this man doesn't believe in suicide
this is not a man, lol

God is love, love is not jealous because love is love, but God IS a jealous God, and He is NOT love when He casts the wicked into hell. Burning in hell for an eternity is not a show of love, but a sign of evil. God can and does evil things to evil people, but will show love and compassion to those that seek good.

You seem to be having problems with basic logic.

If 1) skippy is a cat/love
and if 2) cats/love are not dogs/suicidal,
then the statements 3) cats/love are dogs/suicidal, is NOT true, because cats/love it is not possble for cats/love to be that which they are not as per statement 2.

Much like God cannot be that which he is not as per statement 2.

Logically impossible. Therefore God does not exist.

And you call that logic?
So if they say you are a 'happy fella', and you wake up one morning all grouchy, you no longer exist? "That's not the happy fella that we know, who is this grouchy guy?"

Well, the truth is that I am sometimes hally, and sometimes grouchy.

Are you saying that God has mood swings?

My humble suggestion would be for you to read and try to understand the God of the Bible first, then show He doesn't exist, because the god you are describing is NOT the Bible God.

I see, so you're saying that the book of John, 1 Corinthians and Deuteronomy are not part of the Bible.

Ok, we must be talking about different Bibles. I mean the Christian Bible. Which Bible did you mean?