Is the Real "god" of the Bible.....Satan?

[EDNAR]

[Replying to Master Spade]

MASTER SPADE; You said:
[[With all those stories of how this "god" is a Jealous god, …]]
What does it mean that God is a jealous God? Why is God jealous?
The Bible clearly teaches that God is a jealous God.Exodus 20:5states, "You shall not bow down to them [other gods] or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God." How are we to understand God's jealousy when the Bible also says that jealousy is a sin (Galatians 5:20)? Isn't this a contradiction?

The key is context. In Exodus 20, God revealed the Ten Commandments to the people of Israel. He commanded allegiance and worship to Him alone. He would not tolerate the worship of other gods (a practice common in Egypt and other nations). God was "jealous" in the sense that He expected full devotion, not merely a partial, lukewarm commitment. Worship belongs to God, and He is right to be "jealous" of it.

In other contexts, jealousy is listed as a sin to be avoided. In these cases, jealousy refers to being resentful over something another person has. It could be a material possession ("I am jealous of his Camaro"), a physical attribute ("I am jealous of her waist size"), or a special ability ("I am jealous of the way they can sing"). Such jealousy is often associated with suspicion, envy, and rivalry, and it is always sinful. We are called to be content in all circumstances. "I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need" (Philippians 4:11-12).

Joseph's brothers were sinfully jealous (or envious) of Joseph (Genesis 37:11). They saw Joseph as a rival for the father's attention, and their sin of jealously led to other sins. They sold their own brother into slavery and lied to their father. Years later, these brothers felt guilt for their shameful acts that resulted from jealousy.

However, even in interpersonal relations, jealousy is not always synonymous with envy. Paul provides an example in2 Corinthians 11:2, "I feel a divine jealousy for you." In what way was Paul "jealous"? Very simply, he sought for the church to be fully devoted to Christ. His "jealousy" should be understood as a "guarding" of their relationship with God. Paul wanted the Corinthians to abandon the pursuit of anything that distracted from worshiping the Lord. This is not sinful jealousy. Another example is the statement "Americans are jealous of their freedom";jealoussimply means that we are diligent to protect what we have.

Yes, God is a jealous God. Why? Because He will not share His praise with another: "I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols" (Isaiah 42:8). God carefully maintains and protects what is rightly His. This is divine jealousy, and it is worlds apart from the type of sinful jealousy that causes people to envy, suspect, and resent others.




MASTER SPADE, You said:
[[Just think, the only people that wouldn't want us to know:

- the whole truth,
- and not want us asking questions
- and believe with just BLIND Faith

would be Deceivers! Things like Pedophiles, Murderers, the HUMANS that invented Religion/Gods, and basically Satan(if you believe in Super Beings)! ]]

Jesus = TRUTH = John 14:6
Has He ever NOT wanted you to know the truth or condone lying?

Ask Jesus for the truth … ASK HIM TO COME BEFORE YOU WITH THE HEART OF A CHILD, never with skeptism & impatience or incredulity

Jesus asks all NOT to be like Thomas, who believed AFTER he saw Jesus with holes in His hands, feet & side & touched them.

But all religions ask for faith also. Which is what we all must logically & honestly have to expect.
Muhammad KILLED all who were critics of Islam when Islam was in its infancy stage.

Master Spade, are you easily tempted? Do you judge others by mere sight? Do you have perverted thoughts on occasion? Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever gossiped? Ever had an affair? Stole anything that didn’t belong to you?
The bible tells us us of such people who did much worse & is why the bible is the truth.
The bible also tells us of many who conquered such feelings of immorality, repented & came away joyous celebrating a victory knowing God (YHWH-ELOHIM) who loved them b/c of that!
Tit 1:15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
Matt 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Matt 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Matt 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:



MASTER SPADE; You said:
[[If you read the bible without your Jesus goggles, doesn't it make more sense that something like Satan himself is the "God" of the Bible? Just think, why wouldn't the "God" of the Bible want us to eat of the tree of "Knowledge"?? Why would that god not want us to know Good from Evil...............unless HE IS THE EVIL! He didn't want us informed because we would realize that HE is the true Evil!! ]]

If this was true, then why would Jesus say:

Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.

3:23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

3:25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

3:27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Are children privy to understand all that adults are privy to?
Wouldn’t it be logical to assume the time to know about good & evil is when God let’s you know it is time?

Look at an example … guns.
How is a child to know it is dangerous unless we show them?
The parents would know the time to demonstrate the destructive power of a gun.

Take Chuck Yeager.

He had two brothers, Roy and Hal, Jr., and two sisters, Doris Ann (accidentally killed at 2 by 6-year old Roy playing with a shotgun)[2][3] and Pansy Lee.

Chuck’s father never abandoned the gun as dangerous(as would the anti-gun lobbyists) but instead
Educated & schooled the boys how to safely use firearms so this type of accident would never happen again.

Look at the following verse below:

Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

There is cold but b/c there is an absence of heat.
There is darkness b/c there is an absence of light
There is evil b/c there is an absence of peace/goodness.
There is disobedience b/c there is recalcitrance to authority.
Jesus, God, is the authority. God will NOT be disobeyed.
Tough love is what brings people to be penitent or punished severely.




MASTER SPADE; You said:
[[…, with stories of how to sell your daughter as a Sex Slave, to name only a few of the Disgusting things this "god" is responsible for…]]

FACT#1: The Old Testament is strictly for the Jews.
Fact#2: Slavery was very common during that time & NOT relevant today. This is another reason Jesus came with a NEW COVENANT for us Gentiles & Jews.
FACT#3: These righteous laws were made to NOT abuse the system in place.

Exodus 21:7 If a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant. Among ancient nations the father' s rights over his children were generally regarded as including the right to sell them for slaves. In civilised nations the right was seldom exercised; but what restrained men was rather a sentiment of pride than any doubt of such sales being proper. Many barbarous nations, like the Thracians (Herod. 5:6), made a regular practice of selling their daughters. Even at Athens there was a time when sales of children had been common (Plut. Vit. Solon. § 13). Existing custom, it is clear, sanctioned such sales among the Hebrews, and what the law now did was to step in and mitigate the evil consequences. (Compare the comment on verse 2.) These were greatest in the case of females. Usually they were bought to be made the concubines, or secondary wives of their masters. If this intention were carried out, then they were to be entitled to their status and maintenance as wives during their lifetime, even though their husband took another (legitimate) wife (ver. 10). If the retention was not carried out, either the man was to marry her to one of his sons (ver. 9), or he was to sell his rights over her altogether with his obligations to another Hebrew; or he was to send her back at once intact to her father' s house, without making any claim on him to refund the purchase-money. These provisos may not have furnished a remedy against all the wrongs of a weak, and, no doubt, an oppressed class; but they were important mitigations of the existing usages, and protected the slave-concubine to a considerable extent.

[Danmark]

The key is context. In Exodus 20, God revealed the Ten Commandments to the people of Israel. He commanded allegiance and worship to Him alone. He would not tolerate the worship of other gods (a practice common in Egypt and other nations). God was "jealous" ....
In other contexts, jealousy is listed as a sin to be avoided.
....
Yes, God is a jealous God. Why? Because He will not share His praise with another: "I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols" (Isaiah 42:8). God carefully maintains and protects what is rightly His. This is divine jealousy, and it is worlds apart from the type of sinful jealousy that causes people to envy, suspect, and resent others.

No. "God's" jealousy is exactly the same thing. That is why we use the same word for it. The fact the Bible has God claiming God is jealous is further proof the Bible was written by men, men who had human understanding and imputed it to this false and anthropomorphic 'God' they created.

How do we know this? If there really were only one God and he created the universe and was all powerful and knew this, he would never be jealous. He would laugh at such an absurd idea. There would be nothing for him to be jealous about. Is a human jealous of a slug? A toad? Is an Olympic champion jealous of the athletic accomplishments of a 60 year old couch potato? The idea is preposterous.

A real God would not act and feel so human. He would smile a benign and paternal smile, like father who is proud of his five year old for standing up for himself and having the spirit and courage to fight back when up against impossible odds. Picture a father teaching his son to box. Would the father get jealous when the boy fires his jab at his father as he was taught?

This claim of a 'jealous god' is powerful argument for the fact god is a literary character drawn by humans.

[Zzyzx]

.

If there really were only one God and he created the universe and was all powerful and knew this, he would never be jealous. He would laugh at such an absurd idea. There would be nothing for him to be jealous about. Is a human jealous of a slug? A toad? Is an Olympic champion jealous of the athletic accomplishments of a 60 year old couch potato? The idea is preposterous.

Compelling point. Bible believers take note. The bible writers you (generic term) revere depicted a "god" they envisioned as an anthropomorphic (humanoid) character with human emotions -- not the characteristics that might be associated with an infinite, all-powerful, all-knowing supernatural entity that was greater than the entire universe.

This is why I challenge those who make claims of KNOWLEDGE about "infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, supernatural entities." If such things exist they are WAY beyond human comprehension -- and depicting them with human characteristics is foolish (to put it diplomatically).

[EDNAR]

[Replying to Danmark]

Danmark,
You said:

[[No. "God's" jealousy is exactly the same thing. That is why we use the same word for it. The fact the Bible has God claiming God is jealous is further proof the Bible was written by men, men who had human understanding and imputed it to this false and anthropomorphic 'God' they created.

How do we know this? If there really were only one God and he created the universe and was all powerful and knew this, he would never be jealous. He would laugh at such an absurd idea. There would be nothing for him to be jealous about. Is a human jealous of a slug? A toad? Is an Olympic champion jealous of the athletic accomplishments of a 60 year old couch potato? The idea is preposterous.

A real God would not act and feel so human.]]

1st, it isn’t logical or even common sense to assume what God would be thinking.
You keep assuming by saying: “ He would …� or “a real God would …�

2nd, Did you read what I posted carefully?
I wrote: “In other contexts, jealousy is listed as a sin to be avoided. In these cases, jealousy refers to being resentful over something another person has. It could be a material possession ("I am jealous of his Camaro"), a physical attribute ("I am jealous of her waist size"), or a special ability ("I am jealous of the way they can sing"). Such jealousy is often associated with suspicion, envy, and rivalry, and it is always sinful. We are called to be content in all circumstances. "I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need" (Philippians 4:11-12)

Are you implying God would be “CONTENT� to allow all of his creations to worship other gods, images & idols?
Haven’t any of you learned that man is so easily swayed so corruptible so gullible there would be open offerings to MOLOCH of every first born by fire to this day!
Worshipping these religions which are the antithesis to the tenets & edicts of Jesus are truly the actions of evil.
Isn’t it normal to PURGE diseases, immediately to prevent further spread of infections?

That is what God did. He was NOT “content� in allowing anyone to commit suicide by going with the flow of evil.
Humans are “content� to be self-destructive … it is our nature NEVER TO KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE PERFECTLY SINLESS … perfectly righteous … perfectly selfless.

What man can think CLEAN pure non-judgmental thoughts 24/7/365????
Thinking them …. Hearing them … seeing them … & doing them is IMPOSSIBLE for all man & this is why we need Jesus in our lives. To achieve this type of perfection from one who is perfect.

[Danmark]

[Replying to Danmark]

Danmark,
You said:

[[No. "God's" jealousy is exactly the same thing. That is why we use the same word for it. The fact the Bible has God claiming God is jealous is further proof the Bible was written by men, men who had human understanding and imputed it to this false and anthropomorphic 'God' they created.

How do we know this? If there really were only one God and he created the universe and was all powerful and knew this, he would never be jealous. He would laugh at such an absurd idea. There would be nothing for him to be jealous about. Is a human jealous of a slug? A toad? Is an Olympic champion jealous of the athletic accomplishments of a 60 year old couch potato? The idea is preposterous.

A real God would not act and feel so human.]]

1st, it isn’t logical or even common sense to assume what God would be thinking.
You keep assuming by saying: “ He would …� or “a real God would …�

I assume this since this God of yours keeps acting and talking exactly like what one would expect from a human. When he says he is 'jealous' what is your basis for disputing this God? You have simply decreed that when he says he is "jealous" he means something else because he is 'God.' This is a perfect example of 'begging the question.'

In other words you've given no argument, no basis for claiming "jealous" does not mean "jealous" except for your circular "because he is God." Instead I've suggested the fact he sounds and acts and talks exactly like a human means he IS human; that is, his character was written by humans.

Simply asserting he is God and therefore he means something different from the ordinary meaning of words when he uses them is completely circular and unjustified.

[EDNAR]

[Replying to post 116 by Danmark]

DANMARK,

You said:

[[In other words you've given no argument, no basis for claiming "jealous" does not mean "jealous" except for your circular "because he is God." Instead I've suggested the fact he sounds and acts and talks exactly like a human means he IS human; that is, his character was written by humans.

Simply asserting he is God and therefore he means something different from the ordinary meaning of words when he uses them is completely circular and unjustified.]]

You assume God's words are fallible(?) ... as are mans?

Hmmm ... if this is true, then I challenge you to find any errors, lies, contradictions or abrogations in the words Jesus spoke

GODS WORDS ARE PERFECTLY w/o THESE.

Mans words are very fallible.

Please resolve this & make your assumptions come to fruition.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 116 by Danmark]

DANMARK,

You said:

[[In other words you've given no argument, no basis for claiming "jealous" does not mean "jealous" except for your circular "because he is God." Instead I've suggested the fact he sounds and acts and talks exactly like a human means he IS human; that is, his character was written by humans.

Simply asserting he is God and therefore he means something different from the ordinary meaning of words when he uses them is completely circular and unjustified.]]

You assume God's words are fallible(?) ... as are mans?

Hmmm ... if this is true, then I challenge you to find any errors, lies, contradictions or abrogations in the words Jesus spoke

GODS WORDS ARE PERFECTLY w/o THESE.

Mans words are very fallible.

Please resolve this & make your assumptions come to fruition.

Let's stick to the subject which is about a "jealous God." If we accept the Bible as accurately representing God's word, then God is claiming to be a "jealous God." You have tried to redefine 'jealous' by begging the question, saying this human representation of God is in fact God. I agree man's words are fallible, even when bound between leather covers and called, "The Holy Bible." That is the very point. Everything written in the bible was written by fallible men.

[BTW, you appear to be having trouble with the quote function. It is very easy to use. PM me and I'll help. Your current work around is confusing.]

[EDNAR]

[Replying to post 118 by Danmark]

DANMARK,

That was a challenge to you in earnest b/c you say Jesus's words(GOD'S words) appear to be human.

I say they are NOT!

There are differences to this word(jealousy) & you seem NOT to want to "CONTEXTUALIZE" the biblical content of it, but seem to rely more on your humanism interpretations.

My challenge was to prove GOD IS NOT fallible & man is!

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever."

Matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the Lord are pure words

Hebrew 4:12 God's word sharper than a 2-edged sword


Now ... about them errors, lies, contradictions & abrogations

[followthelamb]

Wouldn't that be the Ultimate Deception?

With all those stories of how this "god" is a Jealous god, how he KILLS and commands us to Kill, with stories of how to sell your daughter as a Sex Slave, to name only a few of the Disgusting things this "god" is responsible for, doesn't it sound more like this "god" is really Satan? Wouldn't that be the Ultimate Deception? To deceive everyone with Religion, and keep them in the dark?

Just think, the only people that wouldn't want us to know:

- the whole truth,
- and not want us asking questions
- and believe with just BLIND Faith

would be Deceivers! Things like Pedophiles, Murderers, the HUMANS that invented Religion/Gods, and basically Satan(if you believe in Super Beings)! People like that would want us in the Dark, and demand that we Believe ..........without ANY Proof! They would also demand that we ask No Questions, and continue to believe with just BLIND Faith. These are the things that religions Demand!

If you read the bible without your Jesus goggles, doesn't it make more sense that something like Satan himself is the "God" of the Bible? Just think, why wouldn't the "God" of the Bible want us to eat of the tree of "Knowledge"?? Why would that god not want us to know Good from Evil...............unless HE IS THE EVIL! He didn't want us informed because we would realize that HE is the true Evil!!

That story of the tree of "Knowledge" sounds like something The Humans that invented Religion/Gods would invent and use to try to Scare humans with! FEAR KNOWLEDGE! Their reasoning: "For if our god had wanted you to know, he would of given us this knowledge already!".

Religion was basically made by someone like Satan(Deceivers)......to have people worship him/them, or end up in the "Lake of Fire" for all Eternity! To do that, he/they would need us to be Dumb! Religions want their followers to be Uninformed. They want, and even NEED their followers to be as Uninformed as Possible. Only then can religion thrive.

The potter has power over the clay like an author has power over his novel.
For he does what is right to him and what ever he pleases.
God is righteous and all that he does is righteousness how can you say is the god of the bible satan?

Behold all manner of sin is forgiven on to men save for the sin against the holy spirit. For in this you err greatly.

If there was no sin there would be no death, even his elect will never die but the flesh their sould abides in will return to the earth, for from dust we was made and dust we shall return.

How than can you say is the real god of the bible satan?
Behold who created satan? who made all the angels and all men?

Did satan create him self? do you know these things that are hid from the wisdom given to men?

it is written without me was anything made that was made.

The bible is the only truth in the world but evil is in the world so when light enters the world men believes it is evil.

For he has harden the hearts of this people and made their eyes blind so they can not see with their eyes tho they see and understand with their hearts tho they understand.

If you believe the god of the bible is SATAN THAN WOE ON TO YOU, FOR THEIR IS NOTHING WORST THAN A SIN THAT GOD WILL NOT FORGIVE.

satan is the father of all lies behold. The god of the quran yea that god is no god but an imposer even satan him self, he is the lie the muslims believe for the god of the muslims and the god of the bible are not the same the god of the bible he is god the god of the muslims he is no god but a lie and a stranger