If you discovered that Christianity is false,....?

[Divine Insight]

If you discovered that Christianity is false, would you be happy, or disappointed.

And why?

[Divine Insight]

I think when all is said and done, some will be dancing for joy and some will not. Maybe I should start taking dance lessons.

I certainly hope that you believe that you will be dancing for joy. To believe in a religion where you wouldn't be dancing for joy would indeed be foolish.

It doesn't matter to me whether Christianity is true or not, according to the teachings of Jesus my entrance into Seventh Heaven is guaranteed no matter what. So I guess I should be giving dance lessons.

[Thruit]

Divine Insight said,
I certainly hope that you believe that you will be dancing for joy. To believe in a religion where you wouldn't be dancing for joy would indeed be foolish.

It doesn't matter to me whether Christianity is true or not, according to the teachings of Jesus my entrance into Seventh Heaven is guaranteed no matter what. So I guess I should be giving dance lessons. Wink

As long as we obey His teachings apparently:

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand" Mt.7:26

[Divine Insight]

As long as we obey His teachings apparently:

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand" Mt.7:26

That doesn't sound like the same man that said the following:

John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

But then again these aren't quotes from the same man. One is hearsay rhetoric preached by Matthew, and the other is hearsay rhetoric preached by John. It's really impossible to know which of these (if either) would reflect Jesus' views.

It's also impossible to know what Jesus actually taught people to do. The Gospel rumors are extremely contradictory and self-refuting. This is also proven by the many divergent sects of Christendom as well. Even those who claim to be devout Christians argue between themselves over what they believe Jesus taught them to do.

I don't see the point in using Jesus as a pasty to condemn other people. That certainly doesn't sound like the message that Jesus was trying to teach people.

If someone tells me that they believe that they are in harmony with Jesus I'll accept their word for it. Why argue over that?

And I'm not even a Christian. Even as a fairytale I'm willing to show some respect for the demigod Jesus. I think his Father was a jerk, but that's a whole other story.

[Thruit]

As long as we obey His teachings apparently:

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand" Mt.7:26

That doesn't sound like the same man that said the following:

John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

These two verses can be harmonized if we take into account that it takes awhile to build a house and after said house is built, the One who told us how to build returns to test it.

Divine Insight said,
But then again these aren't quotes from the same man. One is hearsay rhetoric preached by Matthew, and the other is hearsay rhetoric preached by John. It's really impossible to know which of these (if either) would reflect Jesus' views.

I think taking into account the idea of a "1st and 2nd" appearance can help clear up some misunderstanding.

Divine Insight said,
It's also impossible to know what Jesus actually taught people to do. The Gospel rumors are extremely contradictory and self-refuting. This is also proven by the many divergent sects of Christendom as well. Even those who claim to be devout Christians argue between themselves over what they believe Jesus taught them to do.

I think loving God and our fellow man sums it all up.

Divine Insight said,
I don't see the point in using Jesus as a pasty to condemn other people. That certainly doesn't sound like the message that Jesus was trying to teach people.

If someone tells me that they believe that they are in harmony with Jesus I'll accept their word for it. Why argue over that?

And I'm not even a Christian. Even as a fairytale I'm willing to show some respect for the demigod Jesus. I think his Father was a jerk, but that's a whole other story.

Why do you think Jesus' Father was a Jerk? Tell me a story.

[Zzyzx]

.

These two verses can be harmonized if we take into account that it takes awhile to build a house and after said house is built, the One who told us how to build returns to test it.

Contrasting statements (or verses) can be "harmonized" by applying enough imagination, creativity, redefinition, smokescreen or whatever it takes. Of course, they still contrast, but may be seen as "harmonized" by those fooled by story telling.

[Thruit]

.

These two verses can be harmonized if we take into account that it takes awhile to build a house and after said house is built, the One who told us how to build returns to test it.

Contrasting statements (or verses) can be "harmonized" by applying enough imagination, creativity, redefinition, smokescreen or whatever it takes. Of course, they still contrast, but may be seen as "harmonized" by those fooled by story telling.

I agree, but it isn't my imagination , creativity, etc., that Jesus is said to have taught through parables and claimed He would return to judge the living and the dead . That's simply what the Bible says. Statements which seem to conflict (often through isolation) can be resolved with greater knowledge of texts surrounding them. That's logical.

[bluethread]

As long as we obey His teachings apparently:

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand" Mt.7:26

That doesn't sound like the same man that said the following:

John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

But then again these aren't quotes from the same man. One is hearsay rhetoric preached by Matthew, and the other is hearsay rhetoric preached by John. It's really impossible to know which of these (if either) would reflect Jesus' views.

You are both ignoring the nature and context of the statements. One is a metaphor and the other the purpose of His earthly ministry. One is an instructional comparison and the other is a statement of purpose.

[arian]

.

These two verses can be harmonized if we take into account that it takes awhile to build a house and after said house is built, the One who told us how to build returns to test it.

Contrasting statements (or verses) can be "harmonized" by applying enough imagination, creativity, redefinition, smokescreen or whatever it takes. Of course, they still contrast, but may be seen as "harmonized" by those fooled by story telling.

You just summed up the 'contrasting statements' made by Big-bang Evolutionists who claim this BB created the universe out of nothing. So I agree that with just the right amount of harmonization between the religious Priests of Evolution applying enough imagination, creativity, redefinition, smokescreen or whatever it takes, the stories may even sound believable. Of course, they still contrast, but may be seen as "harmonized" by those fooled by story telling.

You see how easy it is to make blanket comments, and it can be used on anything, no matter what the subject.

But what does it prove?

Nothing.

God our Creator is a fact. The stories in the Bible are there to let us see just how far sin has distanced us from knowing and seeing our very Creator in who's image we were created, and reveals a map to find our way back. Sure we can argue about the 'map', one can say; "No, this is not the way, this map is garbage! I know a better way!"
The other says: "No, you are looking at it upside down, you are going the wrong way, the destination you are headed is hell, not God and his Heaven."

Take care old debating friend.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]
There are false teachings within Christianity, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Why not?

What is it about this baby that you think is worth hanging onto?

I was talking to a Jewish friend who doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah. His reasons made alot of sense, but it occured to me his reasoning doesn't mean Jesus isn't the Messiah. It only means the Christian view of Jesus has been distorted. So, after taking my friends view of how the God of the Jews forgives people and applying it to the NT, I'm finding it fits pretty well.

To believe that Jesus was the Messiah is to believe that a corpse came back to life and then flew away. This belief is the very cornerstone of Christianity. What "reasoning" do you find in believing that such an obviously ridiculous story is actually true?

As long as we obey His teachings apparently:

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand" Mt.7:26

Notice that the quote you have provided was NOT written by Jesus, but by the author of The Gospel of Matthew. Jesus wrote NOTHING himself, and so what he actually taught and believed himself is unknowable. We only have the words that were put into his mouth by others decades after his death. Gospel Matthew, like ALL of the gospels, was written anonymously. At what point does your unquestioning faith not appear to be anything other then an obvious manifestation of your lifetime of indoctrination and programming?

[Divine Insight]

You are both ignoring the nature and context of the statements. One is a metaphor and the other the purpose of His earthly ministry. One is an instructional comparison and the other is a statement of purpose.

Ok, let's assume that Jesus truly is lusting to judge everyone in the way that so many Christians seem to be convinced that he is. What would that mean?

Do you think that Jesus is out to condemn as many people as he possibly can on petty technicalities? Is that the Jesus of Christianity? An unbridled hateful monster who lusts to condemn people for every petty little thing?

According to these fables this demigod Jesus is not the hateful monster that Christians seem to wish he was. When non-believers crucified him they mocked him, spit in his face, beat him, nailed him to a pole, stabbed him with a spear and had every intent to make sure he would die.

Yet he called out to his imaginary Father God pleading, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?"

Also, from these very same fables we have the following:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Apparently the demigod Jesus wasn't aware that the Father no longer judges anyone but had committed all judgement over to him. He's still asking the Father God to forgive people. But lo and behold, we have it right there in scriptures that the Father judgeth no man but hath committed all judgment unto the Son. I'm sure Jesus was set straight on this after he died and was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

In any case, he no longer needs to ask his dad to forgive anyone, he can just do it himself.

But more importantly what does this tell us? Well, according to these fairytales the demigod Jesus is now the judge of humans. Evidently his Father grew tired of his human pets and gave them to his son for a birthday present.

Still, it tells us something about how the demigod Jesus judges people. Evidently you can disbelieve in Jesus, you can mock him, you can spit in his face, beat him, and even nail him to a pole and he'll still forgive you as long as you don't know what you're doing. So clearly he's a very forgiving demigod that let's people off if there is even the slightest benefit of doubt available for them.

This is clearly a different demigod than many Christians seem to wish that Jesus was. Many Christians seem to be hopeful that the demigod Jesus will automatically condemn anyone for merely not believing that Jesus is anything more than an ancient mythological fictional character.

But surely he would not condemn people who are 2000 years removed from the time when he supposedly lived for merely not believing in utterly absurd, and basically insane, rumors that have been demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt to be totally undependable.

Yet some Christians seem to be hopeful that Jesus will lustfully condemn people for not believing such absurdities. They even act like they would be disappointed in him if he were not that evil.

But there's no indication in these fables of the demigod Jesus that he's chomping at the bit to condemn anyone. On the contrary, just the opposite is true. Apparently he would rather forgive people than condemn them. Just the opposite of what some of his "Christian Followers" seem to hope that he might do.

I don't see any reason why Jesus would condemn any decent atheist even if Jesus was a real demigod. Not only would it not be important to believe in Jesus, but it wouldn't be important to believe in his Father either. In fact, it appears that his Father tossed in the towel on his human pets and doesn't even want to be bothered judging them anymore. So now all judgement is up to Jesus according to these myths.

According to these ancient fables Jesus supposedly said the following:

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Can the demigod Jesus be trusted to speak the truth?

If a person doesn't judge others then according to the demigod Jesus they shall not be judged. Therefore Jesus cannot judge people who do not judge others lest he'll make himself a liar.

If a person doesn't condemn others then according to the demigod Jesus they shall not be condemned. Therefore Jesus cannot condemn people who do not condemn others lest he'll make himself a liar.

If a person forgives others then according to the demigod Jesus they shall be forgiven. Therefore Jesus has no choice but to forgive people who forgive others lest he'll make himself a liar.

So even according to these fables the demigod Jesus has guaranteed my destiny to Seventh Heaven. I judge no one, I condemn no one, and thus far I have forgiven everyone who has trespassed against me.

Therefore unless the demigod Jesus is a liar, I can't be judged. Come judgement day there will be no trial for me, no questions ask, and no judgement required.

Ironically there are Christians who claim that the reason I won't be judged is because my fate to be damned has already been sealed. But they have failed to hear the words of the demigod Jesus.

On judgment day, not only will I not be judged because I judge no one, but I cannot be condemned either because I condemn no one. So my destiny necessarily has to be eternal life in paradise. There can be no condemnation for me according to the demigod Jesus.

When I arrive at Heaven (much to the disappointment of the Christians who wish in their hearts that I should be condemned) I will be forgiven of any sins I may have committed against just as I have forgiven those who have committed sins against me.

And so there you have it. Contrary those "Christians" who wish to condemn people in Jesus' name, I shall not be condemned, but instead I will be given unquestioned entrance into heaven. The Pearly gates of heaven will open for me automatically like the automatic doors at a Walmart Supercenter. No questions will be asked, no judgements will be made, and any sins I might have been guilty of will be automatically forgiven.

So you see, it's not even necessarily to believe in the fairytale of the demigod Jesus for those of us who do not judge and condemn others. We are automatically saved through karma.

Our very own actions and behavior has been our salvation. No demigods were harmed in the process.

It's not required to believe in demigod fairytales. All that is required is good karma just as the demigod Jesus is said to have taught.

So there are things that can be learned from the demigod Jesus fairytale. But condemning people in the name of Jesus is not one of them. In fact, I don't see anywhere in this fairytale where anyone is being taught to condemn anyone in the name of Jesus.

If someone says that they have read these fairytales and have understood that Jesus has insured their salvation, then why should anyone question that?

Apparently they must have perceived Jesus to be a judgmental monster. I just don't see that in these fairytales. But I guess we all put a little bit of ourselves into every fairytale that we read.