How can we determine which parts of Scripture are true?

[Zelduck]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

[Zzyzx]

.

You rely on doctors as if they can cure you.

Correction: I consult doctors because they have studied medicine and have knowledge concerning human injuries and diseases. I trust (and rely upon) then FAR more than preachers of politicians.

Do you prefer or recommend preachers and prayer instead of medical treatment in the case of disease or injury? If you and yours were involved in an automobile wreck and were seriously injured would you prefer that someone summon emergency medical personnel OR preachers?

If god strikes you with a uncurable diseases all your hope is in the grave for you wont call upon him.

If a Christian contracts an incurable disease and calls upon their "God", are they assured of a cure? Does prayer trump medical attention?

Tell your doctors to cure you from ebola and viruses to come which is far worst than these you have seen and heard.

Do preachers cure those diseases? Are god worshipers immune from disease? If Christians are afflicted with Ebola or similar disease will praying cure them?

when the lord strikes you, if he strikes you for your rebellion and folly.

I am aware that many religionists worship a "god" that they claim prefers docile, sheep-like, naive, gullible subjects (or at least self-selected preachers have that preference). "Rebellion" -- refusing to worship a currently popular "god" -- is threatening to religion and religionists (who tend to get very emotional when someone won't kowtow to their dogma).

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to followthelamb]

Its hard for you to believe in the one and true god the lord jesus christ. and its sometimes hard for me to understand how a man can not believe in the lord christ since the evidence of his pressence is all throughout the earth.


It is written the fool says there is no god. so who then is wise?

As for the abomination, do not put the quran and the bible in the same sentence for the god of the quran is no god but satan him self,

Less you see a sign and a mighty wonder you will not believe. Even still there were those who still did not believe for the mighty works of the lord.

Here is your sign behold it is a prophecy. The islamic state leader will gain all nations except for 3,

though u are not religious you will bow before him to save your life, for the times coming when all who do not bow to him and his god will be killed.

All who are written in the lambs book of life will not bow to him or take his mark
and even they will be as a man with out a head. For they will be killed.

at the end of the days the nations will come against jerusalem and jerusalem will go into captivity 42 months

all these things will be done in this generation. when u see it come to pass no that the lord thy god has worked a sign through me for your sake.

JUST NOW IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU BEHOLD THESE THINGS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH SHALL BE MOVED OUT OF ITS PLACE.

if you do not believe now believe when you see these saying come to pass in the near future.

So u may be hid from the evil to come

Here is a passage from the Holy Qu'ran. According to Muslim belief the Holy Qu'ran is not the "inspired Word of God" as Christians claim the NT to be. The Holy Qu'ran is the direct Word of God, imparted to the prophet Mohammad word for word by the angel Gabriel.

"That they said (in boast) "We have killed Christ Jesus the
son of Mary, the apostle of Allah";-- but they killed him not,
nor crusified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and
those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain)
knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they
killed him not:--" (Qu'ran, Su 4:157).

Jesus was not not crucified, nor was he executed. If this is correct then the whole of Christianity is founded on a lie. Now what is one to make of this contradiction? Your holy book is valid, because you say so. On the other hand, their holy book is valid, and yours is wrong, because they say so. On the one hand, if their holy book is invalid, then 1600 years of Islamic belief, held in the utmost of faith and sincerity by billions of devout Muslims, is simply wrong. On the other hand,if the Holy Qu'ran is correct then two thousand years of Christianity is founded upon a lie. Both sides declare their holy book to be the TRUE "Word of God." And both sides cannot be right. According to your book, hordes of dead people once came up out of their graves and wandered the streets of Jerusalem. Night of the Living Dead in old Jerusalem. (Matt. 27:51-52) According to Joshua 10:12-13, the entire Earth once stopped rotating at a command from Joshua, so that the Israelite's could finish their task of slaughtering an entire people, right down to the smallest babe in arms. And of course your entire belief system if founded on the claim that a corpse came back to life and flew away. Are these credible claims? Exactly what method do YOU use to separate make believe from plausible fact, if not by judging what is claimed against what is reasonably believable? Do you even notice that while you have immersed yourself in your ancient superstitions, science has actually managed to place robots on Mars? Do you suppose that would have been possible if scientists had chosen to immerse themselves in ancient make believe, instead of setting out to discover how the universe REALLY works?

all these things will be done in this generation. when u see it come to pass no that the lord thy god has worked a sign through me for your sake.

"All these things will be done in this generation," because "the end is at hand," and Jesus is about to return in glory at any moment now. Which is of course exactly the same spiel that Christians have been ladling out for the past TWO THOUSAND YEARS! But here is an undeniable fact for you. Everyone who lived two thousand years ago is still very reliably and undeniably DEAD, despite two thousand years of empty claims and promises to the contrary. So which has the better track record of believability, science, which is responsible for that computer that you have managed to learn to operate, not to mention smart phones and robots on Mars, or Christian claims with a track record that currently stands at ZERO FOR TWO THOUSAND YEARS? Because you see, while you sit contained in your ancient two thousand year old death wish, the rest of humankind is busily discovering the secrets of the universe.

[Baz]

[Replying to post 137 by Korah]

Surprised to see a moderator comment being followed by personal opinions of the poster.
I’m probably out of order by mentioning it. There are probably channels etc.

[Baz]

What is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit?
I’m reading that as; What writings are inspired by god.
The answer to that must be; Nobody knows and probably never will.

I would sagest that if you read something that feels like your god has had a hand in it, then there is no reason not to except it as a gift of enlightenment or divine guidance, so long as it does not encourage you to behave in a detrimental way to your fellow creations.

There is inspiration in the Christian bible as well as all other religious writings. If there wasn’t nobody would follow them.

If god has inspired mankind to produce anything, what that thing is could only be defined if you had a definition of god. As everybody will have their own definition of god, what is god inspired must also be individual.
I see nothing wrong with going back to the salad bar (mentioned at the start of the tread) and selecting for yourself.
If you believe that god is good and you pick only the good stuff what difference does the flavour make.
The emphases being on yourself, the problem occurs when you want to select for other people.




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[otseng]

[Replying to post 175 by followthelamb]

[Replying to post 179 by followthelamb]

[Replying to post 180 by followthelamb]

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[OnceConvinced]

Its hard for you to believe in the one and true god the lord jesus christ. and its sometimes hard for me to understand how a man can not believe in the lord christ since the evidence of his pressence is all throughout the earth.

When I look thoughout the earth, I see overwhelming evidence of evolution. I see many horrors as well as beauty. If a God created all these things, then he must have been truly malevolent. As for which God is true, there are thousands and thousands of Gods throughout history that men have worshipped. They all believed that theirs were true and real too.

It is written the fool says there is no god. so who then is wise?

Certainly not the one who thinks he is wise:

Pro 3:7
Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.

Pro 11:12
A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbour, but a man of understanding holds his tongue.

Pro 16:5
The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

Really, if a fool understands there is no God, then what does that say about those who insist there IS a God?

As for the abomination, do not put the quran and the bible in the same sentence for the god of the quran is no god but satan him self,

Christianity and Islam are so similar its not funny. Both believe their God is the one true God and all others are Satan. Who are you to say that your religion is true while Islam is Satanic and why should anyone take that claim seriously? The both look like the devil is behind them to me.

Less you see a sign and a mighty wonder you will not believe. Even still there were those who still did not believe for the mighty works of the lord.

Why is believing without proof something to be admired in your mind? There are way too many people being taken in by scams in this world because they just accept what they are told without question and without making sure it's for real. I for one do NOT want to be taken in by a scam and do not see faith as something admirable.

though u are not religious you will bow before him to save your life, for the times coming when all who do not bow to him and his god will be killed.

If God is going to have his angels throw me into hell to burn for all eternity, then you bet I’ll be on my knees. The same would apply to any one threatening to put me through a torturous death. Wouldn’t you?

All who are written in the lambs book of life will not bow to him or take his mark
and even they will be as a man with out a head. For they will be killed.

You love making threats don’t you? Lol

I’m actually wondering why God would have something so primitive as a book. Imagine if the bible had said he had some kind of machine to store all this data on. Or imagine if the bible described a small box or a disc containing all this data. It would surely have shown the bible to be divine. But instead God uses a book? Helloooooo.

Actually for an all knowing being, I’m surprised he even needs a book to know whose naught and nice. Santa doesn’t.

at the end of the days the nations will come against jerusalem and jerusalem will go into captivity 42 months

Ho hum. End times sensationalism. Even Paul believed he was in the end times. He was wrong, so why should we believe any of these wolf-cryers now?

all these things will be done in this generation. when u see it come to pass no that the lord.

Yes, a generation which passed away 2000 years ago. Paul believed that too.

thy god has worked a sign through me for your sake

I do not acknowledge you as a spokesperson from God or that God is working through you and I doubt too many others here see you as one either. Many deluded people have come and gone from this website believing they were a spokesperson from God. They have all had one thing in common. All of their predictions have proven so far to be false.

JUST NOW IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU BEHOLD THESE THINGS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH SHALL BE MOVED OUT OF ITS PLACE.

I do not like them in a box.
I do not like them with a fox
I do not like them in a house
I do not like them with a mouse
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

(I can quote from a book too)

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 179:

...
As for the abomination, do not put the quran and the bible in the same sentence for the god of the quran is no god but satan him self
...

The god concept at work - It's wrong for you to do the very thing I'm fixin' to!

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 180 by followthelamb]

Has it ever even occurred to you, followthelamb, that perhaps YOU are the one who has been deceived their whole life? How would you even know if you have never even considered that possibility? What hard evidence can you provide for us which will establish unequivocally that the things you have always supposed were true aren't simply myth and make believe, and have some actual connection to factual reality? And if you CAN'T do that, why in the world would you expect others to attach any credibility to what you have to say?

I have encountered Christians in the past who actually believe that the words of the Bible have power when spoken or written, which when presented, immediately causes the listener to be overwhelmed and humbled at the hearing of them. You appear to be one of those, throwing out quotes from scripture as if you believe the words to be daggers in the heart. Because if you are one of those, you are truly living in a world of fantasy. Most of the non believers on this forum are exceptionally familiar with the Bible and what is contained there. I myself have read the Bible cover to cover more than once. The Bible is particularly interesting because it presents the world view of a particular group of ancient people over the course of a thousand years or so, and demonstrates the way their world view changed and evolved over time. It's a terrific anthropological tool. It allows us to understand the mindset of these ancient people. It does NOT exhibit any special power however. There is a good deal of wisdom to be found within the pages of the Bible. Also much that we today should rightfully look upon with disgust. And more than a fair amount of pure baloney.

[followthelamb]

[Replying to Tired of the Nonsense]

You use a false gospel to disprove The King of kings? Then u say how would science progress if believe an ancient gospel?

U words to me are words of a foolish man for u say there is no god? How can my gospel prove it self true? All that is written is truth but because it is true you think it's a lie, the Quran has a father and the father is their god, for their god is the devil and Muhammad is his prophet

Who can deny the death of The Lord even they are anti Christ as it is written.

You say Christians for many years been saying the lord god will strike but did they know that the heathen are reserved for the day of ruin?

Why do the heathen prosper? Why do they who curse god and deny him have plenty. Some of them live many days they grow old to see their children's children.
The tents of the robber is safe from fear and ruin. They get riches and some have more than the heart could desire, therefore they say to god depart from us for we do not desire the knowledge of yours ways or seek u.

Behold this is the portion of a wicked man who does no not know god,

If his children are multiplied it is for the sword. Tho he heeps of gold like dusk and clothing like clay, he may prepare it but the just shall put it on. His children shall seek to please the poor and his hands shall restore there goods.
His wive shall be a harlot in the city. And all darkness shall be in his secret parts.

His face shall change upon him, he may start of with a cheery face but when god awakes and reward his ways his face upon him shall be harden

God shall strike his hairy crown and he shall be bald like the eagle, god shall reward his ways but he can not understand.

Behold the way of the wicked prosper for a time but he shall go away to be with his fathers in the grave.

Why do the heathen prosper? Why do they who deal very deceitful prosper in the earth behold your portion is in this world. But the just is in the world to come.

At the end of the days when god judges every soul what will the wicked man plead to his judge when he delivers him to eternal fire?

Behold this world and every thing in it and every good thing in it and bad thing every sorrow and joy is all temporary. But in the world to come it shall be forever.

Then u will see the difference between him who serves god The Lord Jesus Christ and him who serves him not.

But before that u will know the power of god for if u still have breathe u will see the rich men throw their gold into the streets and u will see the blind throw their gods into the streets for all will know the god of Daniel has risen and his day has come upon all they who dwell upon the earth in those days

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to followthelamb]

You use a false gospel to disprove The King of kings? Then u say how would science progress if believe an ancient gospel?

I am not Muslim myself. I used someone else's religious holy scripture to establish that religious holy scripture isn't undeniably true and valid just because someone believes it to be so, or declares it to be so. Science progresses because some people have managed to put ancient superstition and make believe behind them and move forward into discovering how the world REALLY works.

U words to me are words of a foolish man for u say there is no god? How can my gospel prove it self true? All that is written is truth but because it is true you think it's a lie, the Quran has a father and the father is their god, for their god is the devil and Muhammad is his prophet

"All that is written is truth but because it is true." This testament to circular reasoning is your belief system in a nutshell. No matter how absurd the claim, it's "truth because it is true." And if we don't believe you, then all we have to do is ask you.

You say Christians for many years been saying the lord god will strike but did they know that the heathen are reserved for the day of ruin?

Most of us "heathens" are extremely familiar with the story, and the claim, yes. Do we seem to be quaking in our boots? It's lucky for us that we haven't been holding out breaths in terror for the last 2,000 years, isn't it!

Why do the heathen prosper? Why do they who curse god and deny him have plenty. Some of them live many days they grow old to see their children's children.
The tents of the robber is safe from fear and ruin. They get riches and some have more than the heart could desire, therefore they say to god depart from us for we do not desire the knowledge of yours ways or seek u.

And why do bad things so often happen to good believing Christian people? Why is it that when the chips are really down, and a Supreme Being would come in really handy, God invariably does nothing at all. And in what way is a God who does nothing at all any different from a God who never existed in the first place? And it would never occur to heathens to curse at make believe deities.

Behold this is the portion of a wicked man who does no not know god,

Wicked is kind of an opinion, isn't it? I have never been arrested. I pay my bills and my taxes. I love my children. I don't believe in the existence of God however. In other words, I do not have an invisible friend to talk to. Does this make me wicked? Or just rational.

If his children are multiplied it is for the sword. Tho he heeps of gold like dusk and clothing like clay, he may prepare it but the just shall put it on. His children shall seek to please the poor and his hands shall restore there goods.
His wive shall be a harlot in the city. And all darkness shall be in his secret parts.

That's rather a harsh thing to say about my wife. You don't even know her. And my children are just fine, thank you. They don't believe in God either, but they have grown into fine people; healthy, happy and prosperous. And my secret parts are just fine with being kept hidden away, thank you!

His face shall change upon him, he may start of with a cheery face but when god awakes and reward his ways his face upon him shall be harden

God shall strike his hairy crown and he shall be bald like the eagle, god shall reward his ways but he can not understand.

My crown is not as hairy as it once was, but even at age 66 I am pretty far from bald. If God is going to strike me He better get a move on, before old age beats Him to it. So far my life has been perfectly satisfactory, thank you very much. If I went tomorrow I really wouldn't have any complaints.

Behold the way of the wicked prosper for a time but he shall go away to be with his fathers in the grave.

Well, everyone dies. Whatareyagonna do? When I was young my mother told me not to worry about dying, because it wouldn't happen for a long long time. But long long time happens. Just my luck!

Why do the heathen prosper? Why do they who deal very deceitful prosper in the earth behold your portion is in this world. But the just is in the world to come.

Why do the heathen prosper? Maybe because they choose to live in the real world instead of a make believe world. It's a huge advantage.

At the end of the days when god judges every soul what will the wicked man plead to his judge when he delivers him to eternal fire?

This is all going to occur when Jesus comes back, right? Like he has been supposed to be coming back for the last 2,000 years? Given your current success rate, which is DEAD WRONG FOR 2,000 YEARS, please be sure to inform me when it happens. I wouldn't want to miss it.

Behold this world and every thing in it and every good thing in it and bad thing every sorrow and joy is all temporary. But in the world to come it shall be forever.

Yes, nasty bad things will happen to all of the nasty bad people just as soon as Jesus comes back. But I am not holding my breath. And just a word of caution. Neither should you. It's already been 2,000 years, and you're not that talented.

Then u will see the difference between him who serves god The Lord Jesus Christ and him who serves him not.

Unless I grow old and die first. Which is kind of the way that things have been working out these last 2,000 years.

But before that u will know the power of god for if u still have breathe u will see the rich men throw their gold into the streets and u will see the blind throw their gods into the streets for all will know the god of Daniel has risen and his day has come upon all they who dwell upon the earth in those days

Well, BRING IT ON! So far all you Christians have provided is 2,000 years worth of totally empty threats and promises. And empty threats and promises are roughly equivalent to what the bull left laying out there in the pasture.