How can we determine which parts of Scripture are true?

[Zelduck]

This is really a question for Christians, but since it doesn't assume the validity of the Bible, I think it belongs here rather than in the Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma section.

There have been multiple canons of Scripture. Books have been accepted and rejected for various reasons throughout Christian history. Books have lied about their authorship. Passages have been added and removed. Books were written in different times and different places by different authors and for different reasons.

So how can I have confidence in any particular verse, chapter, or book, that what I am reading is the inspired work of the Holy Spirit, and not the work of a man, no matter how pious?

What method ought I use to reliably determine what is and is not the Word of God? Has someone already done this for me, and if so, how can I tell if they didn't make a mistake?

[followthelamb]

[Replying to followthelamb]

You use a false gospel to disprove The King of kings? Then u say how would science progress if believe an ancient gospel?

I am not Muslim myself. I used someone else's religious holy scripture to establish that religious holy scripture isn't undeniably true and valid just because someone believes it to be so, or declares it to be so. Science progresses because some people have managed to put ancient superstition and make believe behind them and move forward into discovering how the world REALLY works.

U words to me are words of a foolish man for u say there is no god? How can my gospel prove it self true? All that is written is truth but because it is true you think it's a lie, the Quran has a father and the father is their god, for their god is the devil and Muhammad is his prophet

"All that is written is truth but because it is true." This testament to circular reasoning is your belief system in a nutshell. No matter how absurd the claim, it's "truth because it is true." And if we don't believe you, then all we have to do is ask you.

You say Christians for many years been saying the lord god will strike but did they know that the heathen are reserved for the day of ruin?

Most of us "heathens" are extremely familiar with the story, and the claim, yes. Do we seem to be quaking in our boots? It's lucky for us that we haven't been holding out breaths in terror for the last 2,000 years, isn't it!

Why do the heathen prosper? Why do they who curse god and deny him have plenty. Some of them live many days they grow old to see their children's children.
The tents of the robber is safe from fear and ruin. They get riches and some have more than the heart could desire, therefore they say to god depart from us for we do not desire the knowledge of yours ways or seek u.

And why do bad things so often happen to good believing Christian people? Why is it that when the chips are really down, and a Supreme Being would come in really handy, God invariably does nothing at all. And in what way is a God who does nothing at all any different from a God who never existed in the first place? And it would never occur to heathens to curse at make believe deities.

Behold this is the portion of a wicked man who does no not know god,

Wicked is kind of an opinion, isn't it? I have never been arrested. I pay my bills and my taxes. I love my children. I don't believe in the existence of God however. In other words, I do not have an invisible friend to talk to. Does this make me wicked? Or just rational.

If his children are multiplied it is for the sword. Tho he heeps of gold like dusk and clothing like clay, he may prepare it but the just shall put it on. His children shall seek to please the poor and his hands shall restore there goods.
His wive shall be a harlot in the city. And all darkness shall be in his secret parts.

That's rather a harsh thing to say about my wife. You don't even know her. And my children are just fine, thank you. They don't believe in God either, but they have grown into fine people; healthy, happy and prosperous. And my secret parts are just fine with being kept hidden away, thank you!

His face shall change upon him, he may start of with a cheery face but when god awakes and reward his ways his face upon him shall be harden

God shall strike his hairy crown and he shall be bald like the eagle, god shall reward his ways but he can not understand.

My crown is not as hairy as it once was, but even at age 66 I am pretty far from bald. If God is going to strike me He better get a move on, before old age beats Him to it. So far my life has been perfectly satisfactory, thank you very much. If I went tomorrow I really wouldn't have any complaints.

Behold the way of the wicked prosper for a time but he shall go away to be with his fathers in the grave.

Well, everyone dies. Whatareyagonna do? When I was young my mother told me not to worry about dying, because it wouldn't happen for a long long time. But long long time happens. Just my luck!

Why do the heathen prosper? Why do they who deal very deceitful prosper in the earth behold your portion is in this world. But the just is in the world to come.

Why do the heathen prosper? Maybe because they choose to live in the real world instead of a make believe world. It's a huge advantage.

At the end of the days when god judges every soul what will the wicked man plead to his judge when he delivers him to eternal fire?

This is all going to occur when Jesus comes back, right? Like he has been supposed to be coming back for the last 2,000 years? Given your current success rate, which is DEAD WRONG FOR 2,000 YEARS, please be sure to inform me when it happens. I wouldn't want to miss it.

Behold this world and every thing in it and every good thing in it and bad thing every sorrow and joy is all temporary. But in the world to come it shall be forever.

Yes, nasty bad things will happen to all of the nasty bad people just as soon as Jesus comes back. But I am not holding my breath. And just a word of caution. Neither should you. It's already been 2,000 years, and you're not that talented.

Then u will see the difference between him who serves god The Lord Jesus Christ and him who serves him not.

Unless I grow old and die first. Which is kind of the way that things have been working out these last 2,000 years.

But before that u will know the power of god for if u still have breathe u will see the rich men throw their gold into the streets and u will see the blind throw their gods into the streets for all will know the god of Daniel has risen and his day has come upon all they who dwell upon the earth in those days

Well, BRING IT ON! So far all you Christians have provided is 2,000 years worth of totally empty threats and promises. And empty threats and promises are roughly equivalent to what the bull left laying out there in the pasture.

Paul was in the last days but not the latter end of it. Gods time is different from man time but u will not understand.

Me speaking to u is like a monkey speaking to a bear. Tho we use the same language u can not understand our tongue.

U speak of the world and worldly things I speak of the word and the world just what I say to u u can not understand.

U may not worship no god now but u will worship abu bakr al bsghdadi and his gods.
For the difference between coming of lord now and then is what is told to u this day will occur and it's told to u before so u might believe

When the leader of the islamic state gains all nations save for 3 u will see the beast and u will behold the false prophet

For he shall gain all nations and cause all to worship his god and who ever does not will be killed.

The holy people will not worship his god nor him and will not take his mark and even they will be beheaded for the witness of Jesus

All who were killed by him for Jesus sake will be raised from the death after 42 months

But all who save their life will enter into the great day of judgement after the 42 months

U may have heard of 7 year tribulation but I tell u the tribulation I speak of is 3 and a half years

When u see these things come to pass u will now The Lord god has warned u

For I tell u all nations will be overthrown by the leader of the islamic state except for 3 and two of those 3 are brothers and the last one was servant to his older brother

Paul did not know these things because tho he was in the last days it was not near his generation

But our generation it is here and u will see it and u will fear

That's how u will know The Lord has spoken when u see these things come to pass know The Lord has spoken and has not deceived

[followthelamb]

Its hard for you to believe in the one and true god the lord jesus christ. and its sometimes hard for me to understand how a man can not believe in the lord christ since the evidence of his pressence is all throughout the earth.

When I look thoughout the earth, I see overwhelming evidence of evolution. I see many horrors as well as beauty. If a God created all these things, then he must have been truly malevolent. As for which God is true, there are thousands and thousands of Gods throughout history that men have worshipped. They all believed that theirs were true and real too.

It is written the fool says there is no god. so who then is wise?

Certainly not the one who thinks he is wise:

Pro 3:7
Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.

Pro 11:12
A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbour, but a man of understanding holds his tongue.

Pro 16:5
The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

Really, if a fool understands there is no God, then what does that say about those who insist there IS a God?

As for the abomination, do not put the quran and the bible in the same sentence for the god of the quran is no god but satan him self,

Christianity and Islam are so similar its not funny. Both believe their God is the one true God and all others are Satan. Who are you to say that your religion is true while Islam is Satanic and why should anyone take that claim seriously? The both look like the devil is behind them to me.

Less you see a sign and a mighty wonder you will not believe. Even still there were those who still did not believe for the mighty works of the lord.

Why is believing without proof something to be admired in your mind? There are way too many people being taken in by scams in this world because they just accept what they are told without question and without making sure it's for real. I for one do NOT want to be taken in by a scam and do not see faith as something admirable.

though u are not religious you will bow before him to save your life, for the times coming when all who do not bow to him and his god will be killed.

If God is going to have his angels throw me into hell to burn for all eternity, then you bet I’ll be on my knees. The same would apply to any one threatening to put me through a torturous death. Wouldn’t you?

All who are written in the lambs book of life will not bow to him or take his mark
and even they will be as a man with out a head. For they will be killed.

You love making threats don’t you? Lol

I’m actually wondering why God would have something so primitive as a book. Imagine if the bible had said he had some kind of machine to store all this data on. Or imagine if the bible described a small box or a disc containing all this data. It would surely have shown the bible to be divine. But instead God uses a book? Helloooooo.

Actually for an all knowing being, I’m surprised he even needs a book to know whose naught and nice. Santa doesn’t.

at the end of the days the nations will come against jerusalem and jerusalem will go into captivity 42 months

Ho hum. End times sensationalism. Even Paul believed he was in the end times. He was wrong, so why should we believe any of these wolf-cryers now?

all these things will be done in this generation. when u see it come to pass no that the lord.

Yes, a generation which passed away 2000 years ago. Paul believed that too.

thy god has worked a sign through me for your sake

I do not acknowledge you as a spokesperson from God or that God is working through you and I doubt too many others here see you as one either. Many deluded people have come and gone from this website believing they were a spokesperson from God. They have all had one thing in common. All of their predictions have proven so far to be false.

JUST NOW IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU BEHOLD THESE THINGS THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH SHALL BE MOVED OUT OF ITS PLACE.

I do not like them in a box.
I do not like them with a fox
I do not like them in a house
I do not like them with a mouse
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

(I can quote from a book too)

Why is believe with out proof amazing to me?

But here are those who will see a sign and they will believe and there are those who will see a sign miracle and still not believe but

There are those who will believe by not seeing any miracle at all and just by the word of god who has given that man his faith through his grace

There are rich men who believe in having a vision. They act in faith for riches and as they believed so they receive.

Then there is a the poor man who does not take chances to gain riches for he doubts he will make a gain if he invest his money. So the poor man plays it safe and aims to get what seems possible to him. Like everyone else.

So who has more faith for riches the rich man or the poor man?

Wisdom is greater than riches and god gives it. If there are those who believes in riches and act on what they believe and receive according to their faith

How much more do u think a man who believes with out a miracle seen with his eyes but believes in his word and what he saw in his heart shall receive?

I tell u they will inherit all things and much abundance in faith and in the world to come cities made out of all gold

Whether u acknowledge me as a messenger of god or not does not matter to me titles are title but his word is a surely


As I told in post before. When u see the leader of the islamic state gain all nations no that The Lord god has spoken to u through me and his other prophets who shall preach these things in these days now and ahead of us


Behold all nations shall be given into the desolator and he will kill gods people and will have power over the whole word save for 3 nations

Jersusslem will be trodden down and half of the city will go into captivity

Babylon will be destroyed and America will be overpowered by the leader of the islamic state. and many parts of it shall be destroyed.

Egypt and their gods will go into captivity Egypt will be besieged and over thrown

Many countries will be over thrown by him

And all nations shall worship him all who are not written in the lambs book of life.

U will behold these things and when u shall see these things come to pass then u will know if god spoke to me and they who are teaching the people in these days or if he did not

For the coalition will fail.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to followthelamb]

Why is believe with out proof amazing to me?

This was addressed to OnceConvinced, but I would like to address it as well. Mainly because this was the only thing in your posts to the two of us that was meaningful. Belief without proof amounts to foundation-less assumption. So my question to you is, in what sense is belief without proof in any way different from make believe?

[followthelamb]

[Replying to post 193 by Tired of the Nonsense]

How is a city built? How does a inventor invent?
How was the first car made?

I will tell u

God puts in a mans heart what's so ever he wants to be created

That man now has an idea
That man believes in what he saw in his head

That man acts on it,
He does not see it with his eyes yet but god placed the invention in his heart
So he acts on it.
He was given faith and strength to do what is required to turn a idea into a creation

Behold now u have a invention.


If man can act on faith to invent tho he did not see with his eyes
Any proof Of his invention being manifested into a real life product

Than why is it so hard to believe on the god who created all things just by hearing his word and not by a mighty sign?

If u can answer me then u will answer your own question u asked me

[otseng]

[Replying to post 191 by followthelamb]

[Replying to post 192 by followthelamb]

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[Tired of the Nonsense]

It's againist the rules to preach in this subforum followthelamb. In this subforum you are expected to debate the truth of whatever it is you personally choose to believe by providing facts and evidence to support it. Spewing out your your personal world view without providing anything of substance to back it up is simply venting, and a sure indication that you can't actually make your case. Being reduced to preaching on this subforum is essentially the same as admitting your own defeat. Although it is perfectly acceptable to cite from the Bible, the Bible is not considered to be necessarily definitively authoritative in and of itself in this forum. You must establish some factual basis for your claims. This is a debate forum and facts logic and supporting evidence are required. Your personal opinions are meaningless unless you can support them. Preaching IS acceptable in other subforums.

So let's get the ball rolling. You believe that Jesus died, but that after portions of three days had passed his corpse came back to life and ultimately flew off up into the sky. Taken at face value this is a perfectly ridiculous claim. Can you make a case that this actually physically occurred in real life and is not simply a baseless ancient fiction? Or do you personally believe it to be true simply as a matter of make believe and wish fulfillment because it is what you have been trained to believe your entire life? I am suggesting that you should be able to provide actual reasons for believing in something that appears to be the very definition of ridiculous if you actually have a case to make. "That's what really happened because that's what I believe" is not a case.

[followthelamb]

[Replying to Tired of the Nonsense]

A servant hearken to the laws of his master.
Men hearken to they who are higher in power than them selves

If this be the case how can u say to me listen to u or abide by the rules of a man who has a limit on his numbers of days

What god commands that I will do

Believe what u will just know The Lord will make his self known to u and all they who dwell in the isles

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to Tired of the Nonsense]

A servant hearken to the laws of his master.
Men hearken to they who are higher in power than them selves

If this be the case how can u say to me listen to u or abide by the rules of a man who has a limit on his numbers of days

What god commands that I will do

Believe what u will just know The Lord will make his self known to u and all they who dwell in the isles

Spouting disjointed gibberish only makes one appear unhinged and does a disservice to other Christians.

[followthelamb]

[Replying to post 198 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Non sense to u but there are those who highly regard his words

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to followthelamb]

Non sense to u but there are those who highly regard his words

How would you react if a Muslim made this statement to you? Because of course he would be referring to the words of the Holy Qu'ran and not the Holy Bible? Would you be inmpressed? Would this statement have any meaning or effect on you at all? Try to understand at least that your statement's and quotations from the Bible have no special meaning for us and no effect at all on those of us who do not believe as you do. Flogging us with harsh condemnations from your book of ancient superstitious beliefs has no effect on us, and is entirely pointless. To you the Bible is the revealed Word of God. To us it's just an ancient book written by ancient ignorant superstitious people. I've read the entire Bible. It's interesting. But it's still just a book written by men. [/quote]

In the U.S. there is a segment of the population who have become known to pollsters and "the None's." This group includes atheists, agnostics and individuals who indicate no interest in religion at all. Since the beginning of the new century this group has been growing at an annual rate of about 1% per year, while Christianity, especially Protestentism has been decling at about 1% per year. None's are by far the fastest growing segment of the population, currently numbering about 20%. Superstition is giving way to education and knowledge in the 21st century, as factual knowledge fills in the blanks which were once filled in by religious beliefs. Knowledge represents truth, and truth will always win out over make believe eventually. The more knowledge we acquire, the less use we have for ancient superstitious beliefs