Are people born to virgins "divine?"

[Zzyzx]

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Jesus is said to be "divine"at least partially because his mother was supposedly impregnated by a supernatural entity.

According to statistics about 1 in 120 births in the US is claimed to be to mothers who were virgins. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/1 ... 62320.html Of course none of the virgin birth claims (including that of Jesus) can be verified as actually without male involvement.

Biology confirms that humans do not reproduce through parthenogenesis (asexually).

This seems to open several possibilities:

1. Humans can reproduce asexually in spite of medical evidence to the contrary
2. "Gods" impregnate about 0.8% of human females annually
3. Many humans are divine (about 2.5 million in the US)
4. The "virgins" (including perhaps "Mary") are not telling the whole truth
5. The Jesus claim is true and all other claims by or for "gods" or humans are false.

What is your take on the virgin birth issue?

[Danmark]

This seems to open several possibilities:

1. Humans can reproduce asexually in spite of medical evidence to the contrary
2. "Gods" impregnate about 0.8% of human females annually
3. Many humans are divine (about 2.5 million in the US)
4. The "virgins" (including perhaps "Mary") are not telling the whole truth
5. The Jesus claim is true and all other claims by or for "gods" or humans are false.

6. Mental health issues explain these reports.
7. A combination of 4. (the most likely answer) and 6. is the almost unlimited capacity humans have for self delusion.

7. Represents one of the main reasons I dislike most religions. The human capacity for self delusion is already grand, adding to it an appeal to authority to 'authenticate' whatever it is one wants to believe is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

[Adstar]

[Replying to post 8 by atheist buddy]

Nothing that i said in my reply indicated that i do not believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. Nothing written in this thread proves to me that the virgin birth of Jesus did not take place. My reply was in response to the OP proposition that a virgin birth caused Jesus to be divine. This reasoning could then be used to say that all we need to do to create a divine being is to get a virgin and artificially inseminate her. so produce a virgin birth.

So my reply was not acknowledging that the virgin birth did not happen and it was opposing the idea that a virgin birth in itself can produce a divine Being.

[RaiderGonzo]

Divine is not what comes out of a woman's womb; it is who the Divine is.

One must be born of the Spirit in order to be part of the divine.

Otherwise, of the earth you came and to the earth you must return.

Dust to dust, and spirit to the spirit.

[Zzyzx]

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Divine is not what comes out of a woman's womb; it is who the Divine is.

Okay, let's try that. Who is "divine" and how can that be shown to be true?

Thousands of divine "gods" are proposed, worshiped, feared, loved, venerated, promoted by humans. Which ones are actually divine and how can we know that?

[RaiderGonzo]

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Divine is not what comes out of a woman's womb; it is who the Divine is.

Okay, let's try that. Who is "divine" and how can that be shown to be true?

Thousands of divine "gods" are proposed, worshiped, feared, loved, venerated, promoted by humans. Which ones are actually divine and how can we know that?

Alright, what does worship mean to you?

Is it you getting on your knees, putting your palms together and saying some sort of recitation?

Is it lighting a candle, burning some incense and meditating on some personal need?

Or is it action., action in the sense of doing righteous things?

Action is the true form of dedicated worship., lip service is not true worship!

When you don't bow to no higher understanding other than your own, then you act accordingly, right?

You are a free man/woman who acts and does according to your own self worship., for it is only what you believe in that you pay homage to, right?

Thus worship is "action"

If you consider your intellectual as worthy, then you pay homage to it and that is your divine.

But if you don't consider yourself divine, then by default you must consider something or someone else divine., whether that be philosophy, science, medicine or else, that is your divine because that is what you believe and -in a matter of speaking- that is what you listen to as your holy truth, your divine.

Hence, for a person like me, I find my divine to be far above me in all sense, mentally, physically, philosophically, scientifically, astronomically and what have you; because, I am but a mere man in this great cosmos of which I am but a grain in the sand. I cannot imagine my 20th/21st century mind to compare to the math of the universe., a math yet to be discovered and be rediscovered., that math of the "created" universe is the divine to me, for it teaches me of all things that matter both in a physical sense and in a man's spiritual heart., and if that is not divine, then I don't know what is!

[Zzyzx]

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Thousands of divine "gods" are proposed, worshiped, feared, loved, venerated, promoted by humans. Which ones are actually divine and how can we know that?

Alright, what does worship mean to you?

Worship is meaningless to me personally. However, the term is generally used to indicate showing reverence and adoration for (often a deity); honor with religious rites or rituals.

Is it you getting on your knees, putting your palms together and saying some sort of recitation?

Is it lighting a candle, burning some incense and meditating on some personal need?

Or is it action., action in the sense of doing righteous things?

Doing righteous things is independent of worship. Non-worshipers, Non-religious people do "righteous things" without the motivation of "worship."

If you consider your intellectual as worthy, then you pay homage to it and that is your divine.

One inclined to worship proposed divine entities may think of it this way. A Non-Theist may think of intellect as one of a multitude of characteristics of people -- no gods or divinity required.

But if you don't consider yourself divine, then by default you must consider something or someone else divine.,

False dichotomy – another alternative = consider NOTHING as "divine" (defined as: of, from, or like God or a god"). Again, god-worshipers "see" worship or divinity in others when it need not be true at all – except in the mind of worshipers.

[RaiderGonzo]

well then, if nothing is sacred (divine) to you, and you don't worship any type of truth in your life -per say- then what are you about? -nothingness? just go with the flow and see where one falls? eat, shit and die, as some would put it? everything goes and nothing really matters?

[Zzyzx]

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well then, if nothing is sacred (divine) to you, and you don't worship any type of truth in your life -per say- then what are you about? -nothingness? just go with the flow and see where one falls? eat, shit and die, as some would put it? everything goes and nothing really matters?

It is not uncommon to encounter god-worshipers suggesting that "everyone must worship something or everything is meaningless."

Perhaps they could expand their horizons (and their understanding) if they came to understand that it IS possible for others to respect or accept many things without worshiping them. Many of us are exempt from the worship mindset.

Worship of supernatural entities seems to predispose people to believing that others must worship SOMETHING -- because Theists worship. That is very faulty "reasoning."

Truth does NOT require worship. We can, for instance, accept that the Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun (which at least one Theist appears to question) WITHOUT "worshiping" either.

Is that difficult to comprehend?

[RaiderGonzo]

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well then, if nothing is sacred (divine) to you, and you don't worship any type of truth in your life -per say- then what are you about? -nothingness? just go with the flow and see where one falls? eat, shit and die, as some would put it? everything goes and nothing really matters?

It is not uncommon to encounter god-worshipers suggesting that "everyone must worship something or everything is meaningless."

Perhaps they could expand their horizons (and their understanding) if they came to understand that it IS possible for others to respect or accept many things without worshiping them. Many of us are exempt from the worship mindset.

Worship of supernatural entities seems to predispose people to believing that others must worship SOMETHING -- because Theists worship. That is very faulty "reasoning."

Truth does NOT require worship. We can, for instance, accept that the Earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun (which at least one Theist appears to question) WITHOUT "worshiping" either.

Is that difficult to comprehend?

Ahh but you see, there lies the question, whereas one can follow a physical understanding of all things without an indwelling of the Spirit, and then question what is real truth, but still remain subjective to one's own understanding; like picking apples from pears, but yet is it all without worship? Negative, sir! Worship requires that you adhere to one truth or some other. You cannot serve anything or anyone without worshiping., and if what you serve is your own truth, then indeed you serve yourself.. And if you serve yourself ~> I dare say, you make yourself to be a type of self-serving god!

[Zzyzx]

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You cannot serve anything or anyone without worshiping.,

Correction: YOU can't serve anything or anyone without worshiping. Others are NOT bound by your limitations (or by your definitions of words).