Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of THE Creator.

[Zzyzx]

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From another thread

I present undeniable and scientific evidence of THE Creator.

I await the evidence.

Question for debate: Is the evidence undeniable and scientific (and compelling / convincing) or is it just more of the same stuff that has been presented ad nausea?

[Zzyzx]

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For those who may not be aware, Otseng is the owner of this website, the developer of this Forum, and the final authority in all Forum matters. He is a strong Christian and an experienced and effective debater. He selects members of the Moderating Team (in consultation with other moderators) and insures that there is a balance of Theists and Non-Theists. He is very adamant that moderators MUST follow rules and guidelines just like everyone else – no special treatment – no "moderator power" in debate.

I have watched him in action for seven years and he has earned my respect by being scrupulously fair, extremely patient, and very even-handed toward all points of view. As a result of his efforts and policies, this is by far the best website of its type on the Internet (to the very best of my knowledge and experience).



[Replying to post 48 by arian]

Arian, it would be wise to set aside any personal disapproval of Zzyzx and begin actually debating issues – starting with presenting your "undeniable scientific evidence of our creator" AND starting to abide by Forum Rules and Guidelines.

Which "gods" are "creator gods" and which are "created gods" AND how can anyone interested verify which is which?

And this sums up your entire response (post 46) to me, as the rest of them previous to this. Twisting and turning all my clear responses into mush.

It seems ironic that you choose the term "Mush" -- with which I do not disagree.

However, I do not take credit for turning your responses into anything other than what they are initially.

Where did I ever refer to our Creator as "creator gods"? How many posts have I posted that explains the difference between Creator and the created?

Look again, I said; "created gods are not the Creator God"

God, no 's' at the end as in gods.

For debates in this sub-forum NONE of the "gods" is given preferential treatment or assumed to be any more real or revered than any of the thousands of other "gods" proposed, worshiped, loved, feared, imagined, etc by humans – many or most of whom claim that their favorite "god" is the only "real" one and is the "creator" of the universe and its contents.

Worshipers do not seem able to present sound evidence that their favorite "god" is any more real than any others proposed, and no sound evidence has been presented to verify that it created anything (except in human imagination).

But so you can show your seeming almighty power in debate, you continue mocking me and everything I say, and yes I'm sure all your "let the readers decide" so called atheist friends will back you up.

Frankly, Arian, I need no back-up in our "debates" or for debates in general. I am comfortable debating whoever comes along – and I have invited famous religionists as well as divinity school faculty and students to debate here Head-to-Head or in C&A sub-forum. Perhaps debate where theism is not afforded special treatment does not appeal to them?

"Power" in debate LOST when one cannot substantiate their claims and stories – as you (generic term) may have noticed.

In my opinion, one cannot "win" debates but one can certainly "lose" credibility and respect with readers and fellow debaters by failing to substantiate their claims, stories, positions.

This poster mocks me, and yes this impersonal responder to my debates identified by the letters "Zzyzx" is mocking me, our Creator and God because he can.

Correction: "This poster" CHALLENGES your CLAIMS and repeatedly asks for substantiation (as required by Forum Rules). Those who fail to present substantiation seem to feel as though they are discriminated against.

Perhaps those who attempt to promote their version of religion and their opinion about "gods" are at a disadvantage – since they repeatedly fail to present support that is something more than opinion, conjecture, testimonial, unverifiable tales, etc.

It might be wise for them to find a softer target or a "Christian friendly environment" where opposition views are not permitted. Holy Huddle comes to mind.

In the fashion of The Snake, also called the Devil who deceived Eve with the twisting of words, this impersonal responder by the letters "Zzyzx" follows in his very footsteps.

Can you debate the issues rather than obsessing with personal comments to Zzyzx?

This thread was created specifically so you could present your "undeniable scientific evidence of our creator" but you seem hesitant or unable to do so. What seems to be the problem?

Let God be the judge of this impersonal responder/mocker identified as 'Zzyzx', and may 'He who IS' reward him and his team of debaters accordingly.

When all else fails, play the "god card" and maybe that will intimidate someone.

What substantial evidence verifies that the "God" to whom you refer is anything more than imaginary?

Now everyone can see the debater you (plural) really are. Aaahh.. is that a 'personal remark' Zzyzx?

I am quite comfortable with "everyone" (readers and fellow debaters) evaluating what I present and comparing that to what you do (or don't) present.

Well so is when I get a warning on this forum.

The only people who receive comments, warning, probation, suspension, and/or banishment are those who repeatedly violate Forum Rules and Guidelines.

If you receive one of the above it is richly deserved.

But of course you and your 'team' are protected, you can mock and make fun of anyone's post you choose, but would never be regarded as 'personal remarks' from you.

I am "protected" by staying well within Forum Rules and Guidelines. Moderators have no special status in their debates and are as subject to rules and guidelines as everyone else.

Those who think otherwise are entitled to contact Otseng, site owner / Christian / strong debater, by PM and voice their complaint.

tell me, why are you so scared team Zzyzx?

Scared? One who assumes that I am "scared" is overworking their imagination or defense mechanisms. Perhaps if they do not fare well in debate they can hope / pray that their "gods" will intercede on their behalf. So far, that doesn't seem to have happened.

What is so scary about me revealing God our Creator to you?

I ENCOURAGE you to "reveal" your favorite "God" and demonstrate that it is the "creator." When do you intend to start revealing your knowledge?

I can only think of one thing, "Because you no longer have an excuse not to believe'.

Perhaps you could expand your horizons when attempting to guess about other people (unless you are omniscient or a mind reader).

Debater arian has spoken the truth,

Where was that – verbatim quote, URL. How has it been demonstrated that whatever Arian presented was truth – or anything more than opinion, conjecture, imagination, delusion, and/or false claim?

and because you are unable to degrade it, even by resorting to every religious atheistic debating trick in the book,

There is no need to "degrade" what has not been presented and verified / supported.

the undeniable scientific evidence of our Creator stands.

No such evidence has been presented. You have claimed to be able to present "undeniable scientific evidence of our creator" and this thread was started specifically for you to make that presentation.

WHEN will you present the evidence for all to consider?

And you and your team will just have to live with that until we all see Him, our Lord and Savior Jesus coming with power and might to judge the living and the dead. And no demonic symbol or tattoo can hide anyone from His presence.

Has it escaped your notice that preaching which may be acceptable (and believed) in church or in Holy Huddle is NOT acceptable or believed by all who debate in C&A – and is specifically prohibited?

So no matter what happens here Zzyzx, we will have ONE more debate on 'That Day of our Lord', where on your knees, you can use every trick you have accumulated in your entire life, and present your evidence that God, and His Son Jesus Christ 'do not exist'.

Does that imaginary scenario make you feel better about the present debates?

I ask God, in the name of Jesus Christ to be personally present when you present your case.

See comment above about preaching. That you believe in or worship (or fear) one of the thousands of "gods" is meaningless to those of us who require evidence before we commit to any of the proposed supernatural entities.

[arian]

So after 5 pages.......Arian still claims to have this "Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of the Creator".............yet refuses to provide it.

I wonder....why?

Bottom line, either Present said evidence, or admit that you are the same as all the other Religions. Yes, you are in a religion. Deal with it.

This is exactly what I mean Otseng (and other fellow Moderators), as long as;

religion = God/gods and the worship of gods

arian can turn blue in the face, but will never be able to prove otherwise.

"The word Religion = God/gods and the worship thereof, and we will never accept it any other way! If you play tennis 'religiously' every day for an hour, you worship God/gods, .. so there, .. there are no gods and this proves it."

And oh yea; "We want evidence arian, this is what and how we believe, and will never deviate from it because we are not religious like you, so now again, .. post your evidence already!" LOL..

This is why ANYONE, educated or ignorant can say with pride: "God/god does NOT exist, because even playing tennis can be identified with the worship of god/gods! So there, this is proof that god/gods don't exist in reality, only in religion."

Oh boy, ... and I also agree that if 'religion = god/gods and the worship thereof, then these god/gods are not the Eternal, Infinite Creator God I am describing. My God, the Eternal and Infinite Creator God cannot be created by religious dogma, or practices , .. will never manifest Himself no matter what, and no matter how long a repetitious religious worship you perform, .. whether it's tennis, prayer beads, hail-Mary's, visiting your favorite Gentlemen's Club every Friday night with the guys from work, .. never.

I don't care how many years you have played tennis 'every morning for an hour' religiously, .. God will not appear, or you will never see/understand God our Creator because of it.

Again, .. try to step 'outside' of this religious mindset or you will never see/understand God our Eternal Creator.

I know, .. I know, now you will just reply with the same-o, same-o question; "Arian, can you scientifically reveal your religious Deity god/gods to us or not?" LOL

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to arian]

Arian, please stop stalling.

It was you that brought the undeniable scientific evidence claim up in the first place.

Now is the time to back out gracefully or present it.

6 pages of you waffling on definitions and rules is a bit silly.

Can you do what you say you can do or not?

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 52 by arian]

Having an imaginary conversation with yourself does not constitute debate.

Pontificating about your beliefs isn't debate either.

You made a claim to possess "Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of THE Creator." That claim has been challenged multiple times. Your response has been incoherent rambling that provides absolutely no support for the claim.

It is increasingly apparent that the claim is false. Your claim to worship God and Jesus but to not be religious is no better.

If you wish to preach in favor of your belief without ability to demonstrate that it is true, Holy Huddle is the appropriate sub-forum.

[Clownboat]

So after 5 pages.......Arian still claims to have this "Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of the Creator".............yet refuses to provide it.

I wonder....why?

Bottom line, either Present said evidence, or admit that you are the same as all the other Religions. Yes, you are in a religion. Deal with it.

This is exactly what I mean Otseng (and other fellow Moderators), as long as;

religion = God/gods and the worship of gods

arian can turn blue in the face, but will never be able to prove otherwise.

"The word Religion = God/gods and the worship thereof, and we will never accept it any other way! If you play tennis 'religiously' every day for an hour, you worship God/gods, .. so there, .. there are no gods and this proves it."

And oh yea; "We want evidence arian, this is what and how we believe, and will never deviate from it because we are not religious like you, so now again, .. post your evidence already!" LOL..

This is why ANYONE, educated or ignorant can say with pride: "God/god does NOT exist, because even playing tennis can be identified with the worship of god/gods! So there, this is proof that god/gods don't exist in reality, only in religion."

Oh boy, ... and I also agree that if 'religion = god/gods and the worship thereof, then these god/gods are not the Eternal, Infinite Creator God I am describing. My God, the Eternal and Infinite Creator God cannot be created by religious dogma, or practices , .. will never manifest Himself no matter what, and no matter how long a repetitious religious worship you perform, .. whether it's tennis, prayer beads, hail-Mary's, visiting your favorite Gentlemen's Club every Friday night with the guys from work, .. never.

I don't care how many years you have played tennis 'every morning for an hour' religiously, .. God will not appear, or you will never see/understand God our Creator because of it.

Again, .. try to step 'outside' of this religious mindset or you will never see/understand God our Eternal Creator.

I know, .. I know, now you will just reply with the same-o, same-o question; "Arian, can you scientifically reveal your religious Deity god/gods to us or not?" LOL

Playing tennis "religiously" is a figure of speech meant to convey that it is an activity you do often..

Please stop confusing playing tennis religiously with actual religion.
Apples and Bowling shoes here Arian.

[arian]

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For those who may not be aware, Otseng is the owner of this website, the developer of this Forum, and the final authority in all Forum matters. He is a strong Christian and an experienced and effective debater. He selects members of the Moderating Team (in consultation with other moderators) and insures that there is a balance of Theists and Non-Theists. He is very adamant that moderators MUST follow rules and guidelines just like everyone else – no special treatment – no "moderator power" in debate.

Thank you Zzyzx, and I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I am nothing but grateful to Otseng and his Forum, as I am grateful to every debater here which includes you Zzyzx

I have watched him in action for seven years and he has earned my respect by being scrupulously fair, extremely patient, and very even-handed toward all points of view. As a result of his efforts and policies, this is by far the best website of its type on the Internet (to the very best of my knowledge and experience).

By far better then any other website I have visited so far also, it's nice to agree on certain things old friend. And once you have debated here for a while, and then jump back to see what's going on, on those other websites, the difference is very obvious. I am honored to be here, it is truly a privilege that I wouldn't want to mess up.

[Replying to post 48 by arian]

Arian, it would be wise to set aside any personal disapproval of Zzyzx and begin actually debating issues – starting with presenting your "undeniable scientific evidence of our creator" AND starting to abide by Forum Rules and Guidelines.

I have ABSOLUTELY no "personal disapproval of Zzyzx", and my offer to meet you in person to further our friendship beyond the impersonal debating forum still stands.

Yes, as you can see the warning I got from Otseng, and thinking about it for an hour or so, I realize that there is a big difference between direct, and indirect personal attack, only it is not clearly defined by forum rules, For example;

When we debate 'Evolution' which I find absolutely no scientific evidence of, I had other debaters tell me: "Look arian, you are an animal and you will just have to accept that. Actually an animal in the Ape family, more specifically of the more intelligent chimps. You and your ancestors are Apes!" And they referred to many articles, books, YouTube videos, lectures by Richard Dawkins and so on, as scientific evidence of these facts (I guess it's no longer a theory), Now this is not considered; 'personal attack'.

But when I refer to my God, the Infinite, Eternal Creator, and use the Bible to point out what happens to those that reject the undeniable evidence of Creator who is not of His creation, that they will one day be on their knees before the Great Judge, and if they haven't repented from their blasphemies, they will face eternal damnation, .. another words if I say: "You Zzyzx will have to face judgment for your blasphemies, and eternal punishment is waiting for you or anyone distorting the truth." Now this is considered 'personal attack', while being called an Ape is not?!?

Which "gods" are "creator gods" and which are "created gods" AND how can anyone interested verify which is which?

And this sums up your entire response (post 46) to me, as the rest of them previous to this. Twisting and turning all my clear responses into mush.

It seems ironic that you choose the term "Mush" -- with which I do not disagree.

However, I do not take credit for turning your responses into anything other than what they are initially.

And of course this too is 'not a personal remark' right Zzyzx? And you never have to have a logical response to those specific statements of mine that you find as 'mush', .. correct? When Zzyzx says they are mush, then that should be an acceptable general response to everything I wrote and explained in great detail, .. that it is mush, period, Zzyzx has spoken. And oh yes, I am not to refer to Zzyzx as Zzyzx since he considers that 'a personal remark' which is against the forum rules.

Why, where, how you consider it mush? It just is, .. right? Got it, everything I said was mush and nowhere have I shown scientific and philosophical proof of our Eternal Infinite Creator God that fits within your religious view where god = religion, .. religion = god/gods and worship thereof. Which means that according to Zzyzx, no one could possibly talk about God/gods outside of religion. Which also means that playing tennis religiously = god/gods.

And if I don't accept this, then I am braking forum rules, right?

Where did I ever refer to our Creator as "creator gods"? How many posts have I posted that explains the difference between Creator and the created?

Look again, I said; "created gods are not the Creator God"

God, no 's' at the end as in gods.

For debates in this sub-forum NONE of the "gods" is given preferential treatment or assumed to be any more real or revered than any of the thousands of other "gods" proposed, worshiped, loved, feared, imagined, etc by humans – many or most of whom claim that their favorite "god" is the only "real" one and is the "creator" of the universe and its contents.

Again, for the 'I lost count how many times', .. God the Infinite, Eternal Creator of our universe and everything that has ever been created is NOT; "any of the thousands of other "gods" proposed, worshiped, loved, feared, imagined, etc by humans"

Nowhere in your OP did you ask me to present such god/gods, nor would I waste my time in presenting or adding more to the plethora that already exists. Again, you are not being fair, this is not civil debate.

Worshipers do not seem able to present sound evidence that their favorite "god" is any more real than any others proposed, and no sound evidence has been presented to verify that it created anything (except in human imagination).

And since "none has been presented", none will be allowed, and this according to Forum rules, .. correct?

Just like my scientific discovery of 'nothing'. Since no one can define 'nothing', and since brilliant scientists, philosophers of all time could not comprehend 'nothing', it doesn't exists. We only debate it and use it in everyday language, in ALL languages, .. but this doesn't mean we'll agree with mush-talking arian that it exists. It is only that people like to talk and debate things that don't exist correct? I mean that's logical right Zzyzx?
Or is this religious logic interpreted within/through strict religious doctrines; "No, you cannot ask that,.. no one can know that,.. we are not to comprehend that,.. that is way above human understanding so just accept whatever we tell you!

But so you can show your seeming almighty power in debate, you continue mocking me and everything I say, and yes I'm sure all your "let the readers decide" so called atheist friends will back you up.

Frankly, Arian, I need no back-up in our "debates" or for debates in general. I am comfortable debating whoever comes along – and I have invited famous religionists as well as divinity school faculty and students to debate here Head-to-Head or in C&A sub-forum. Perhaps debate where theism is not afforded special treatment does not appeal to them?

Again for the countless times I have said this, I am not here to present to you some religionist or divinity school faculty or student of divinity created god/gods, please re-read your OP heading.

"Power" in debate LOST when one cannot substantiate their claims and stories – as you (generic term) may have noticed.

In my opinion, one cannot "win" debates but one can certainly "lose" credibility and respect with readers and fellow debaters by failing to substantiate their claims, stories, positions.

As you (generic term) have proven this starting from the OP.

Honestly Zzyzx (in generic term) when are you going to stop trying to make me prove beyond a reasonable doubt the scientific Evidence of The Creator within your religious divinitized understanding of god/gods?

These are created, finite, made-up god/gods, not our Creator. They are created, not Creator. And when I reveal the Creator, He just doesn't fit within your religious understanding of god/gods of which some are created by playing tennis religiously.

This poster mocks me, and yes this impersonal responder to my debates identified by the letters "Zzyzx" is mocking me, our Creator and God because he can.

Correction: "This poster" CHALLENGES your CLAIMS and repeatedly asks for substantiation (as required by Forum Rules). Those who fail to present substantiation seem to feel as though they are discriminated against.

My friend, .. please think about this; How can you challenge something you don't or cannot understand? I practically begged to set some ground rules so we would not have opposing understanding of words, and 'religion' was one of them. The word gay was an example, and here you go again, back to your religious box where anything outside 'doesn't exist'.

Perhaps those who attempt to promote their version of religion and their opinion about "gods" are at a disadvantage – since they repeatedly fail to present support that is something more than opinion, conjecture, testimonial, unverifiable tales, etc.

It might be wise for them to find a softer target or a "Christian friendly environment" where opposition views are not permitted. Holy Huddle comes to mind.

Yes my friend, that would be a good idea. Here, let me give you a more comfortable OP for the Holy Huddle: "The Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of divinely divined and created god/gods and their religions behind it."

It is within your (generic term) scope and religiously limited understanding, and I'm sure you'll have fun there. But wait, I doubt anyone would even take that challenge since they all agree that their god/gods that they study in theology in schools of divinity are incompatible with science. They believe that no one could scientifically prove the existence of God. So you see, you posted this in the proper sub-forum, only you don't know it.

In the fashion of The Snake, also called the Devil who deceived Eve with the twisting of words, this impersonal responder by the letters "Zzyzx" follows in his very footsteps.

Can you debate the issues rather than obsessing with personal comments to Zzyzx?

This thread was created specifically so you could present your "undeniable scientific evidence of our creator" but you seem hesitant or unable to do so. What seems to be the problem?

My problem is that the OP Poster doesn't seem to understand what he is asking of me. He wants a religious interpretation of our Creator God who is, and can only be understood 'outside of religion and their indoctrinations, with all their god/gods'. He wants a religious scientific explanation in the line of Big-bang Evolution creators.
He cannot seem to differentiate between Creator and the created. Between the Infinite and Eternal and finite trapped in time. Between the Living God and the dying, coming to an end gods of this world.

Let God be the judge of this impersonal responder/mocker identified as 'Zzyzx', and may 'He who IS' reward him and his team of debaters accordingly.

When all else fails, play the "god card" and maybe that will intimidate someone.

What substantial evidence verifies that the "God" to whom you refer is anything more than imaginary?

Experience.
Again, not religious experience, but 'observable facts I have witnessed and experienced personally', as in the definition of science.

Now everyone can see the debater you (plural) really are. Aaahh.. is that a 'personal remark' Zzyzx?

I am quite comfortable with "everyone" (readers and fellow debaters) evaluating what I present and comparing that to what you do (or don't) present.

I can't present something scientific, within religious views and limited understanding. Another words, I cannot put my God the Eternal, Infinite Creator in the box of finite, decaying and dying gods. Sorry, please don't take it personal, I just can't do it.

Well so is when I get a warning on this forum.

The only people who receive comments, warning, probation, suspension, and/or banishment are those who repeatedly violate Forum Rules and Guidelines.

If you receive one of the above it is richly deserved.

IMHO, no one who has been here for more then a few hundred posts deserves a Warning, especially not Banishment, unless they had some psychotic attack or something and went ballistic here. Even that I believe we could iron out, together, humanely ether through our posts, PM, or request a personal visit; My house or yours? I would be the Christian thing to do.

Jesus told Peter Matthew 16:23 "Get behind me Satan, ..", and look what a great Apostle he became.

I agree with and appreciate Moderator comments, we need that. If someone is here mocking others and try to make them follow some limited religious viewpoint of theirs from the start, they should be talked to by all of us, and tell them we don't tolerate such behavior. But they should not be doing it thousands of posts later. Especially not requesting a fellow debater for Scientific Proof of the Creator, under their limited religious understanding. That is neither civil or rational.

But of course you and your 'team' are protected, you can mock and make fun of anyone's post you choose, but would never be regarded as 'personal remarks' from you.

I am "protected" by staying well within Forum Rules and Guidelines. Moderators have no special status in their debates and are as subject to rules and guidelines as everyone else.

Shouldn't everyone have that same privilege? You know, those that know and understand the difference between religion and science. Between terms like Eternal, Infinite vs. time and finite. Those that have a basic understanding of absolutes, not abolishing them and try to make others abide by those multiple meanings of words even if they are opposing meanings.

Those who think otherwise are entitled to contact Otseng, site owner / Christian / strong debater, by PM and voice their complaint.

IMHO anyone who complains about another fellow debater is either a wiener who can't hold his/her own, or wants absolute control over his/her debates.
This is debate, if you said to me; "arian you are stupid, uneducated, take some courses in this or that before you speak!" (which I got a lot of in my early debates, and never made a complaint) he should first prove to me, and point out where my fault is, and I would act on it; Study the subject more, use proper language that is more fitting to the subject, etc.

But when I prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person making general negative comments to me doesn't understand the subject, I should not be forced into submitting. That is not beneficial to neither of us. Agreeing to disagree IMO is the major cause of wars and the mess this world is in. Jesus never agreed to disagree. Besides, why debate then? I seek the truth, and if you just agree with me, how will I ever search out the truth about a thing?
But please, .. don't just tell me I'm wrong, or call me stupid, but show me I am wrong and prove my stupidity.

tell me, why are you so scared team Zzyzx?

Scared? One who assumes that I am "scared" is overworking their imagination or defense mechanisms. Perhaps if they do not fare well in debate they can hope / pray that their "gods" will intercede on their behalf. So far, that doesn't seem to have happened.

I'm just telling the way I see it, and for someone with your high intelligence to not understand the difference between finite and Infinite has to have other reasons behind it. It is why people flood the churches, to appease a God they know nothing of, or care about, so they think they make Him believe they are sincere and ease their conscience. And those that don't go to church seem to be on an everlasting quest trying to prove to others God doesn't exist.

First, a religion will never reveal God our Creator, but as you can see will reveal any god, even one specifically tailored to their specifications, like the homosexual Jesus.

Second, why would anyone spend more then a few hours debating against something they don't believe exists? Why?

Flagmack doesn't exist, I don't see people raging wars in either defense of, or against Flagmack. Not so with God and gods, for both the Creator and the created gods exist.

What is so scary about me revealing God our Creator to you?

I ENCOURAGE you to "reveal" your favorite "God" and demonstrate that it is the "creator." When do you intend to start revealing your knowledge?

Soon as you can comprehend and acknowledge the difference between the Creator, and the created. Between the Infinite and Eternal vs. the finite, and time which is decay and dying..

I can only think of one thing, "Because you no longer have an excuse not to believe'.

Perhaps you could expand your horizons when attempting to guess about other people (unless you are omniscient or a mind reader).

No, I just speak from experience, from what I have witnessed with my own two eyes, and heard with my own two ears.

Debater arian has spoken the truth,

Where was that – verbatim quote, URL. How has it been demonstrated that whatever Arian presented was truth – or anything more than opinion, conjecture, imagination, delusion, and/or false claim?

Starting at defining the difference between finite and Infinite, in this I present nothing but the truth.

For you, you said they can be understood as either or. This cannot be considered truth.

and because you are unable to degrade it, even by resorting to every religious atheistic debating trick in the book,

There is no need to "degrade" what has not been presented and verified / supported.

The 'truth' doesn't have to be accepted either, .. right? Not accepting doesn't mean it is not the truth, or that you really do believe it is not the truth. Free will, remember?

the undeniable scientific evidence of our Creator stands.

No such evidence has been presented. You have claimed to be able to present "undeniable scientific evidence of our creator" and this thread was started specifically for you to make that presentation.

WHEN will you present the evidence for all to consider?

Once 'all' can show to understand basic, basic terminology like the difference between finite and Infinite.
I 'all' can't handle milk, how will they digest meat?
If they can't keep up with children, how will they run with horses?
Baby steps first.

And you and your team will just have to live with that until we all see Him, our Lord and Savior Jesus coming with power and might to judge the living and the dead. And no demonic symbol or tattoo can hide anyone from His presence.

Has it escaped your notice that preaching which may be acceptable (and believed) in church or in Holy Huddle is NOT acceptable or believed by all who debate in C&A – and is specifically prohibited?

Preaching? I ask you not to compare the truth to some religious church preaching.

I can explain in detail why I said that, and use the Bible and other sources to back this up for supporting evidence. I have witnessed (not heard in church) but witnessed the vilest of men, murderers who would kill in a drop of a hat bow their heads in shame when 'judgment of God' is mentioned to them, or just seeing the strength of faith in God in the person they are about to kill. Please stop making everything out to be religion, or bringing everything into the comfort of your religious views.

So no matter what happens here Zzyzx, we will have ONE more debate on 'That Day of our Lord', where on your knees, you can use every trick you have accumulated in your entire life, and present your evidence that God, and His Son Jesus Christ 'do not exist'.

Does that imaginary scenario make you feel better about the present debates?

No, it scares me and makes me worry for you.

I ask God, in the name of Jesus Christ to be personally present when you present your case.

See comment above about preaching. That you believe in or worship (or fear) one of the thousands of "gods" is meaningless to those of us who require evidence before we commit to any of the proposed supernatural entities.

You are so tough, and I have seen many tough people tremble when facing death, either execution or dying of disease and old age whether what I tell you was in some of the sermons you heard or not?

Is that the only defense you have, making everything I say out to be about religion?
You continue to insist that I accept my God as one of your imagined god/gods, a deity who resides in the supernatural realm divining to his diviners who graduated in the schools of divinity, only in an undeniable scientific manner.

My God whom I can prove scientifically is not divine, nor does He divine to divining mediums, He does not reside in the supernatural realm where demons are trapped for now and reside, He is not known in any religious circles, Now He may be known of there, but He is not worshipped as He truly is but as a divining-spirit, like Lucifer, .. the god of this world, .. or as a plural demon like Legion.

Sorry, but cannot do. I will not make my God out to be a demon or one of those tens of thousands of gods you know of just to please you, otherwise you refuse to accept anything I say.

It's like choosing the word 'gay' to mean homosexual, and you will not accept the original definition of it. Zzyzx prefers God=religion, and religion=God and that is final.

Sorry but no-can-do. Either you accept scientific evidence of our Eternal, Infinite Creator God, and stick to the actual definitions of words outside of religion and their god/gods, or refuse. If you refuse, you forfeit the debate. But I will not keep repeating myself, or be pulled into debating one of your religiously created gods so you could say: "See, your god is no different than all them other gods created by mans imagination."

[tasteslikecorn]

[Replying to post 10 by YahDough]

So then, God was created by...? And no saying "he just is," unless you are willing to concede the same to non-creationists.

[Inigo Montoya]

''Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.''


Arian, stop. It's impossible to read any more of your inane rambling and take you seriously. Well, I stopped taking you seriously a long time ago, but generally speaking, you're just making it worse for yourself.

You know that sound Caesar Milan makes when he's correcting pet behavior on the Dog Whisperer? I want to make that sound to every poster that interrupts you and distracts you from your chosen mission, to present undeniable scientific proof of the creator.

YOU did this to yourself, Arian. And now you're running away from your boastful claim by ranting and raving about everything BUT the thing you said you could do.

No one is asking you to supply the evidence you said you had in a religious context, and I don't imagine anyone cares about the difference between infinite and finite. Here's a wacky idea -- why not just explain how the difference is relevant IN YOUR ANSWER.

At this point, I would hazard a guess that more of us would forgive you for biting off more than you could chew, and backing down from the challenge than to continue this absurd page after page collection of you typing nothing but word salad that doesn't pertain to anything of interest.

I'm getting a reprimand for this one most likely, so I feel like I should earn it. You sound like a child caught with his hand in the cookie jar, jabbering at length about how it was a frame job and nobody understands you instead of fessing up to the truth: your bluff got called and you're waiting as long as possible to fold your hand.

[help3434]

Again, for the 'I lost count how many times', .. God the Infinite, Eternal Creator of our universe and everything that has ever been created is NOT; "any of the thousands of other "gods" proposed, worshiped, loved, feared, imagined, etc by humans"

Since you are the one who is making this claim then it is your responsibility to show that is true. So far you seem to be going out of your way to avoid showing the evidence you claimed you had.