Is Euthanasia Morally Wrong?

[LukeyLuke]

While considering the teachings within the Bible (or not, if you aren't Christian) and/or the medical implications of a patient thinking of euthanasia, is euthanasia morally wrong? Explain your reasoning.

[Danmark]

However, and again I have my father well in mind, there comes a time when a person has given what he can and can give no more. Or he may still be able to give, but should be respected for wanting to retire, to be relieved of the burden of living. When a person reaches this stage of his life he does not need further preaching or more attempts to make him feel guilty about wanting to leave. He's run the race to the finish; he's fought the good fight; he's earned his reward. He should be blessed and thanked and allowed to move on.

How will we allow him to move on? I agree that people have the right to forego medical treatment if we have their consent to remove it.

According each person dignity involves letting them decide how they wish to 'move on.' Even embracing death as the final stage of life is a matter for each person to decide. My concern is about telling people they must resist death at all costs. It is both kinder and more honest to allow each person to make his own decision about his final days. I would rather be a man's partner in his last decision than err on the side of making him feel guilty about his choice.

[Jagella]

According each person dignity involves letting them decide how they wish to 'move on.' Even embracing death as the final stage of life is a matter for each person to decide. My concern is about telling people they must resist death at all costs. It is both kinder and more honest to allow each person to make his own decision about his final days. I would rather be a man's partner in his last decision than err on the side of making him feel guilty about his choice.

If we allow elderly people to commit suicide, then why not let anybody commit suicide? Shall we say to a suicidal person: "Well, if you want to go kill yourself, then don't let me get in the way. It would be wrong for me to make you feel guilty for that decision."

I think we better give this issue more thought.

Jagella

[Danmark]

According each person dignity involves letting them decide how they wish to 'move on.' Even embracing death as the final stage of life is a matter for each person to decide. My concern is about telling people they must resist death at all costs. It is both kinder and more honest to allow each person to make his own decision about his final days. I would rather be a man's partner in his last decision than err on the side of making him feel guilty about his choice.

If we allow elderly people to commit suicide, then why not let anybody commit suicide? Shall we say to a suicidal person: "Well, if you want to go kill yourself, then don't let me get in the way. It would be wrong for me to make you feel guilty for that decision."

I think we better give this issue more thought.

Jagella

I don't have much problem, if any, with the decision to commit suicide. No one asked to be brought into this world. Seems fair to me they can decide to opt out of it.

But I also think there is a huge difference between an older adult who feels his powers greatly diminished, and the decision of a young person who does not yet have the perspective of age. In any event, we have little power over the decision maker. We don't need to heap shame upon a person who may already be none too happy with his life.

But any potential suicide ought to consider the effect such an act will have on those who love him.

[Jagella]

I don't have much problem, if any, with the decision to commit suicide. No one asked to be brought into this world. Seems fair to me they can decide to opt out of it.

Would you say that to a close friend? Go ahead and "opt out" if you don't want to go on?

But I also think there is a huge difference between an older adult who feels his powers greatly diminished, and the decision of a young person who does not yet have the perspective of age.

One huge difference is that we value young, fit, attractive people. The elderly and disabled are not so valued. Although we withhold their right to access much of the good things in life, we are only too quick to grant them the "right to die."

In any event, we have little power over the decision maker.

We can make sure that "decision makers" live meaningful lives.

We don't need to heap shame upon a person who may already be none too happy with his life.

Agreed! We should heap respect, opportunity and dignity upon those who may be unhappy with their lives.

But any potential suicide ought to consider the effect such an act will have on those who love him.

Again we agree. A suicide is not an isolated act that affects only the person who takes her own life. Suicide affects all of society. What kind of a society is so callous that it does not ensure the lives of its members? A failed society is such a society.

Jagella

[Jashwell]

[Replying to post 52 by Jagella]

In other words, force people to live torturous lives for selfish reasons?

If it were my close friend I'd be emotionally distraught, if I weren't selfish I'd ask them to consider it a few weeks or months later and if they still wanted to I'd help them do it.

Just because I don't want them to go, doesn't give me the right to stop them.

[Jagella]

In other words, force people to live torturous lives for selfish reasons?

While I'm not sure what you meany by "for selfish reasons," I clearly stated that we can help people live good lives if we only try. If people live "torturous lives," then chances are that we are not living up to the standards of a civilized society. One of those standards is to nurture and enhance the lives of the people living in our society. We should heal and cure if we can, but if we cannot heal or cure, then we should love and comfort.

If it were my close friend I'd be emotionally distraught, if I weren't selfish I'd ask them to consider it a few weeks or months later and if they still wanted to I'd help them do it.

You'd be breaking the law in most states. In my home state of Pennsylvania:

A person who intentionally aids or solicits another to commit suicide is guilty of a felony of the second degree if his conduct causes such suicide or an attempted suicide, and otherwise of a misdemeanor of the second degree.

So I would not recommend that you ask anybody to consider suicide or assist them. I would recommend that you try to help them get over whatever is making them feel suicidal.

Just because I don't want them to go, doesn't give me the right to stop them.

Then just let them commit suicide. I hope you can live with the consequences.

Jagella

[Jashwell]

In other words, force people to live torturous lives for selfish reasons?

While I'm not sure what you meany by "for selfish reasons," I clearly stated that we can help people live good lives if we only try. If people live "torturous lives," then chances are that we are not living up to the standards of a civilized society. One of those standards is to nurture and enhance the lives of the people living in our society. We should heal and cure if we can, but if we cannot heal or cure, then we should love and comfort.

"You can't die because I don't want you to" is pretty selfish, you aren't actually taking how they feel into consideration.

That aside, does that mean you understand what I mean by "torturous lives"?

If it were my close friend I'd be emotionally distraught, if I weren't selfish I'd ask them to consider it a few weeks or months later and if they still wanted to I'd help them do it.

You'd be breaking the law in most states. In my home state of Pennsylvania:

A person who intentionally aids or solicits another to commit suicide is guilty of a felony of the second degree if his conduct causes such suicide or an attempted suicide, and otherwise of a misdemeanor of the second degree.

So I would not recommend that you ask anybody to consider suicide or assist them. I would recommend that you try to help them get over whatever is making them feel suicidal.

That's the first thing I'd do, but if they still want to kill themselves some time later, I'd rather not let them continue to suffer.

That said, the law isn't ethical fact and none of my friends are suicidal, so the pragmatic concerns for potential sentencing aren't particularly relevant to me. Depending on the circumstances I may well take jail time or service, if I can't stop a close friend from suffering a lot.

I live in the UK where suicide bills have gone through to the houses of parliament a number times, albeit none have passed (mostly due to anecdotes imho) despite strong (even in house) support.

Just because I don't want them to go, doesn't give me the right to stop them.

Then just let them commit suicide. I hope you can live with the consequences.

Jagella

Doesn't matter if I can live with the consequences, sometimes you have to accept personal loss to make the right decision.

I'd be distraught if one of my friends wanted to commit suicide, yes I'd try to make them happier but if there was no improvement after some time quite frankly it'd be deeply self serving of me to say "you can't die because I'll be sad if you do".

The world isn't so perfect that everyone can live happily or that all depression can be resolved, I'm still unhappy at how many friends have gone to different cities for university, and while I understand that's significantly less permanent (although losing contact with a friend (which can be involved) is the most depressing part of losing a friend) it's still a case of me having to let people go because my interests in their lives don't trump their interests in their own lives.

[Jagella]

"You can't die because I don't want you to" is pretty selfish...

Well, friend, if I'm going to be selfish, then trying to save another person's life is the way to do it.

...you aren't actually taking how they feel into consideration.

Let's talk about how many sick, old, and disabled people feel. Almost all of them want to live, and they want to live lives of opportunity and dignity. If we grant them their desires, I believe euthanasia becomes largely moot.

That aside, does that mean you understand what I mean by "torturous lives"?

You may wish to tell us what you mean.

That's the first thing I'd do, but if they still want to kill themselves some time later, I'd rather not let them continue to suffer.

There are less drastic ways to end suffering. Good medical care and compassion top the list.

I live in the UK where suicide bills have gone through to the houses of parliament a number times, albeit none have passed (mostly due to anecdotes imho) despite strong (even in house) support.

I think the UK does not want a reputation as a nation that kills off the old and the sick.

The world isn't so perfect that everyone can live happily or that all depression can be resolved...

I must concede your point as a weakness in what I'm arguing. I say let's keep trying nevertheless. There can definitely be more effort to increase happiness.

Jagella

[Jashwell]

"You can't die because I don't want you to" is pretty selfish...

Well, friend, if I'm going to be selfish, then trying to save another person's life is the way to do it.

If we're gonna go with rhetoric, attempting to torture a person into obeying your wishes is the best way to be selfish?

...you aren't actually taking how they feel into consideration.

Let's talk about how many sick, old, and disabled people feel. Almost all of them want to live, and they want to live lives of opportunity and dignity. If we grant them their desires, I believe euthanasia becomes largely moot.

Are you suggesting that the sick, old and disabled should want to commit suicide?

If euthanasia is moot then there's no problem legalising it?
Hell, making suicide illegal is the very definition of moot.
Can a corpse even serve jail time?

Nobody's saying that suicide is the most desirable solution to everyone's problems.

That aside, does that mean you understand what I mean by "torturous lives"?

You may wish to tell us what you mean.

I mean it was part of what you quoted, and then you said you didn't understand the other part.

"torturous
characterized by, involving, or causing pain or suffering"

That's the first thing I'd do, but if they still want to kill themselves some time later, I'd rather not let them continue to suffer.

There are less drastic ways to end suffering. Good medical care and compassion top the list.

I'm not sure what kind of dream world you're speaking of where all or most suffering can be desirably solved simply by medical care and compassion.

I live in the UK where suicide bills have gone through to the houses of parliament a number times, albeit none have passed (mostly due to anecdotes imho) despite strong (even in house) support.

I think the UK does not want a reputation as a nation that kills off the old and the sick.

Luckily, the kill-old-and-sick bill that you're proposing has yet to reach either the house of commons or the house of lords, hopefully people won't confuse it for an actual euthanasia or legal suicide proposition.

The world isn't so perfect that everyone can live happily or that all depression can be resolved...

I must concede your point as a weakness in what I'm arguing. I say let's keep trying nevertheless. There can definitely be more effort to increase happiness.

Then what's the problem with letting people end their own lives, esp those who are suffering?

[Goat]

I think there is a difference between euthanasia, where someone else makes the choice on behalf of someone, and the 'assisted suicide' route. For example, that young woman who killed herself because she had terminal brain cancer, and when living got to the point she was a burden to herself as well as to others, she took barbiturates rather the suffer, and make her family suffer. That is certainly different than offing someone who still wants to stick around.

Should we allow only the sick to commit suicide or anyone who wishes to die?

Jagella

That's a tough one. My viewpoint is that if someone wants to die, there probably is something wrong with them. Sometimes, those problems are transient, and people who are depressed CAN get over it. On the other hand, I don't like taking the sovereignty of someone making choices over their own body and lfe.