Same sex marriage is not a church issue.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

[KCKID]

So all Christians that will not submit to secular and liberal and progressive mythology that genders are not important to Christian life, are the Christians doing what is right. They are the Christians doing as Jesus taught.

Here are a few things that Jesus taught . . .

Matthew 10:34
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man's enemies will be the members of his household."

Matthew 10:21
"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death."

Luke 12:53
"They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Are Christians holding to what Jesus taught? If not, how and when will these things occur?

Now let's look at how Jesus reaffirmed marriage:

Man and woman/husband and wife.

Once again, the Christians that hold firmly to this truth are the honest ones.

As has already been pointed out to you, who one chooses to marry is NOT a Church issue and THAT is what this thread is about. "The Church" has no say in this at all.

In fact, Jesus never said a positive word about same gender sex acts or same gender sexuality. Not one word.

Please note ...I'm actually in agreement with you here! I'll ALSO add to your comment, however, that Jesus never said a negative word about same gender sex acts or same gender sexuality either! I can almost empathize just how frustrating that must be for you. The very person who should have said something negative or otherwise about the topic simply didn't!

Another fact, the Bible that Jesus preached from ONLY had words that strongly condemned it.

Firstly, Jesus had the Torah. The ONLY reference to same sex sexual activity would have come from what we now know as the Book of Leviticus. Unlike many Christians of today, Jesus would have been savvy to that scripture and its (probable) intended application to pagan worship practices and idolatry. *

Secondly, if Jesus had forseen that homosexuality would become a threat to "His future Church" - as it HAS - then SURELY He would have broached the subject. But hey ...He didn't! Then again, you can throw this back at me and say that, since homosexuality HAS resulted in Churches having become divided on the issue, Jesus should have directed future Christians to 'cool it' and to accept gay people 'as is'. But, he didn't do that either. Maybe Jesus didn't know as much about the future as we might give Him credit for.

* You're rather notorious for evading specific questions asked of you but I'll try again with a new one in the hope of getting a response. In the past I've given indepth explanations on this very forum regarding the two 'man lying' texts of Leviticus. Such are the accepted interpretations nowadays of many scholars of theology. There are also heaps of videos on YouTube pertaining to the pagan sexual ritualistic worship practices that occurred - and that are probably referenced in the OT - during that time period. All I ask of you is for you to refute the 'pagan worship' aspect of these texts and rather supply YOUR OWN formal explanation as to what these texts mean. Okay?

[ten10ths]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Typical church issues are very limited. It seems like Churchie McChurch likes to get themselves into the lives of others. Maybe it's to justfiy their own faults? Maybe they're living vicariously through others?
All I know is that it's annoying.
I don't know of anyone who has it together enough to get involved with others they don't know.
Why does a minister care that two women get married legally? It doesn't impact him at all.
It's all very, very silly.

[followthelamb]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Yes you are correct for the church of this world, For the church that preaches the doctrine of men and not of god, Yes in this world same sex marriage is not a church issue for they keep the commandments of the world.

But i have a thing against you. For you should have said that i am no sheep but i talk and dress like one but inwardly my heart devours the innocence.

For how can you say christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong?
Behold in this world there is nothing wrong with same sex marraige because they who are of the world are dead,the wrath of god abides on them. but how can a man who says he is of christ say christian should not ban same sex marraige

In you the gentiles blashpheme the name of the lord for the fruits you bare and the words you speak. His annointed are to be alight of the world but you speak as if you walk in darkness.

I tell you all who call upon him and fear him plead against the evil doer, PLEAD against the adultress, the fornicator the liar, the theft, the one who gives his self to strange flesh and to him who walks in the ways of coveteousness .

Behold Plead against the evil so the gentiles will see you as a form of light for the whole word is in darkness.

yet you say same sex marriage is not a church issue? is this judgment? does god delights in this? would king david say what u say or what about the son of god jesus him self?

I condemn all who give them selves over to strange flesh and filthy ness with their own kind, men with men women with women, behold i command all of you to turn from your evil so u do not die,

but you will u plead against them.

I tell you do not say same sex marriage is not a church issue but plead against the evil in the world. do not do as the world but fight against the world with your righteousness if righteousness be in you.

This is the judgment his annointed ones are commanded to do in the field,
not hypocrisy

[followthelamb]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Yes you are correct for the church of this world, For the church that preaches the doctrine of men and not of god, Yes in this world same sex marriage is not a church issue for they keep the commandments of the world.

But i have a thing against you. For you should have said that i am no sheep but i talk and dress like one but inwardly my heart devours the innocence.

For how can you say christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong?
Behold in this world there is nothing wrong with same sex marraige because they who are of the world are dead,the wrath of god abides on them. but how can a man who says he is of christ say christian should not ban same sex marraige

In you the gentiles blashpheme the name of the lord for the fruits you bare and the words you speak. His annointed are to be alight of the world but you speak as if you walk in darkness.

I tell you all who call upon him and fear him plead against the evil doer, PLEAD against the adultress, the fornicator the liar, the theft, the one who gives his self to strange flesh and to him who walks in the ways of coveteousness .

Behold Plead against the evil so the gentiles will see you as a form of light for the whole word is in darkness.

yet you say same sex marriage is not a church issue? is this judgment? does god delights in this? would king david say what u say or what about the son of god jesus him self?

I condemn all who give them selves over to strange flesh and filthy ness with their own kind, men with men women with women, behold i command all of you to turn from your evil so u do not die,

but you will u plead against them.

I tell you do not say same sex marriage is not a church issue but plead against the evil in the world. do not do as the world but fight against the world with your righteousness if righteousness be in you.

This is the judgment his annointed ones are commanded to do in the field,
not hypocrisy

[followthelamb]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Yes you are correct for the church of this world, For the church that preaches the doctrine of men and not of god, Yes in this world same sex marriage is not a church issue for they keep the commandments of the world.

But i have a thing against you. For you should have said that i am no sheep but i talk and dress like one but inwardly my heart devours the innocence.

For how can you say christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong?
Behold in this world there is nothing wrong with same sex marraige because they who are of the world are dead,the wrath of god abides on them. but how can a man who says he is of christ say christian should not ban same sex marraige

In you the gentiles blashpheme the name of the lord for the fruits you bare and the words you speak. His annointed are to be alight of the world but you speak as if you walk in darkness.

I tell you all who call upon him and fear him plead against the evil doer, PLEAD against the adultress, the fornicator the liar, the theft, the one who gives his self to strange flesh and to him who walks in the ways of coveteousness .

Behold Plead against the evil so the gentiles will see you as a form of light for the whole word is in darkness.

yet you say same sex marriage is not a church issue? is this judgment? does god delights in this? would king david say what u say or what about the son of god jesus him self?

I condemn all who give them selves over to strange flesh and filthy ness with their own kind, men with men women with women, behold i command all of you to turn from your evil so u do not die,

but you will u plead against them.

I tell you do not say same sex marriage is not a church issue but plead against the evil in the world. do not do as the world but fight against the world with your righteousness if righteousness be in you.

This is the judgment his annointed ones are commanded to do in the field,
not hypocrisy

[otseng]

[Replying to post 165 by followthelamb]

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[KenRU]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Given that, in the US, no priest or pastor will ever be forced to perform one, nor will one ever be performed on church grounds without permission, I never understood the opposition (often vehement and vitriolic) to same-sex marriage.

The "wall of separation" in the US protects the religious (from being forced to perform same-sex marriages) as it does the non-religious (allowing same-sex marriage). So why the opposition? It makes no sense.

This should be a non-issue.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by Christianity in crisis?]

Very few things are a 'Christian issue' in reality. That doesn't stop Christians from MAKING things their issue.
It's as if they're bored spoiled rich kid with nothing to do so they leave their lofty mansions and go terrorize the neighborhood poor kids. And when the poor kid is knocked down by the rich kid and gets up punches them in the nose, they scream bloddy murder

[Jolly_Penguin]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves wheter they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

Would you also apply this to not churches marrying blacks to whites and to churches marrying able bodied people to disabled people, etc? I am sure there is some obscure dogmatic basis for both.

And would you limit this to religion, or should any business be allowed to deny anybody based on their gender, race, religion, etc? Why should religion get special status?

[fstopper]

[Replying to Jolly_Penguin]

Since God established marriage as between a man and a woman in the first place, then a same sex marriage is not a real marriage anyway.Anyone who claims scripture is silent on same sex relationships should go back and read again.