Yet another ID challenge.

[Box Whatbox]

I've just spent the afternoon with a relative who was introducing her 4-month-old son to our local section of the family.
The poor little blighter spent a lot of time pushing his hand into his mouth, screaming in pain.
Teething, it's called.
Who designed that?

[Divine Insight]

This has been pointed out many times over in general. If we were going to postulate the existence of a designer that theory would need to be called "Stupid Design" not "Intelligence Design".

And especially with respect to the Biblical God as a designer. What kind of a God would design a foreskin to grow on the male penis only to turn around and command that it be circumcised?

This would be like a designer who not only confesses to having made a design error but then he expects us to correct it by cutting it off.

Clearly these religions are nothing but man-made superstitions.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Box Whatbox]

Hi Box,

Are you familiar with Christianity?

I'll only defend ID from the Christian perspective.

1) God declared the world good not perfect.

2) The world was cursed after the fall. Many things that are painful now would not have been painful before.

[rookiebatman]

1) God declared the world good not perfect.

2) The world was cursed after the fall. Many things that are painful now would not have been painful before.

It seems we're on the same wavelength. While you were writing this message, I was starting up another thread on exactly these lines.

[rookiebatman]

I'll only defend ID from the Christian perspective.

Isn't "ID from the Christian perspective" just creationism?

[Box Whatbox]

[Replying to post 1 by Box Whatbox]

Hi Box,

Hi Wootah.

Are you familiar with Christianity?

Very

I'll only defend ID from the Christian perspective.

What other perspectives are there?

1) God declared the world good not perfect.

Well obviously! If He had declared it perfect, everyone would have laughed at Him. Or said 'Aww, bless!'. Or cursed Him roundly. Depending on how bad their day had been..

2) The world was cursed after the fall. Many things that are painful now would not have been painful before.

So do you, Wootah, personally worship a God who has let every innocent babe spend weeks or months howling in pain, when He could have made a minor adjustment to the design of the infant mouth?
If YOU could think of a way to ease the pain of these infants, would you go to the trouble of doing it?
If you knew of a normal human who clearly had the talents and the means to relieve JUST ONE such infant from such pain, and chose not to do it, what would you think of that person?
Do you think this Designer (the one that you believe in and worship) could have saved these innocents from this agony, and chose not to? Do you really believe whoever Designed the infant mouth was loving AND caring AND powerful AND merciful AND intelligent? Explain please!

[Box Whatbox]

God made teething pain. Science made Calpol!

[H.sapiens]

God made teething pain. Science made Calpol!

No, no. I think we now have it on no less an authority that our very own WOOTAH that Adam and Eve created teething pain by eating an apple. Can anyone really take that seriously? That's right up there with Joseph Smith and his Reformed Egyptian.

[Box Whatbox]

[Replying to post 8 by H.sapiens]
Of course, how stupid of me not to realise that eating apples is bad for your babies' teeth! (headslap!)

[Volbrigade]

[Replying to post 1 by Box Whatbox]

Hi Box,

Hi Wootah.

Are you familiar with Christianity?

Very

I'll only defend ID from the Christian perspective.

What other perspectives are there?

1) God declared the world good not perfect.

Well obviously! If He had declared it perfect, everyone would have laughed at Him. Or said 'Aww, bless!'. Or cursed Him roundly. Depending on how bad their day had been..

2) The world was cursed after the fall. Many things that are painful now would not have been painful before.

So do you, Wootah, personally worship a God who has let every innocent babe spend weeks or months howling in pain, when He could have made a minor adjustment to the design of the infant mouth?
If YOU could think of a way to ease the pain of these infants, would you go to the trouble of doing it?
If you knew of a normal human who clearly had the talents and the means to relieve JUST ONE such infant from such pain, and chose not to do it, what would you think of that person?
Do you think this Designer (the one that you believe in and worship) could have saved these innocents from this agony, and chose not to? Do you really believe whoever Designed the infant mouth was loving AND caring AND powerful AND merciful AND intelligent? Explain please!

I accept your objection to the existence of God, based on the fact that infants have the capacity for pain.

So do unborn babies, by the way -- who pitifully try to escape from the merciless forceps and chemical solutions that abort their short lives. I don't have to assume you're ardently anti-abortion, and commend you for your position.

Do you accept my objection to the idea that "once there was nothing, and then it exploded", creating a universe of order and apparent design, in which randomly-assembled microbes morphed into men over great goobly-gobs of time --

based on the love and compassion expressed by the baby's mother, and others in their presence, who would do whatever they could to alleviate the baby's pain?