"I am not a Theist & not religious but I believe in

[Zzyzx]

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Does the following seem self-contradictory?

From ONE post in a current thread –

God speaks through ALL His creation including us men, and just because we deny to hear Him (because of sin) doesn't mean it is lost.

Of course I don't expect you to believe in God just because I do, and that I believe it was His revelation

had very little education, and struggle to express myself, especially with the things God has revealed to me.

This is exactly why God used His Prophets and even His Son to personally talk to us.

I am here to 'reveal by Undeniable Scientific Evidence' our Creator.

Infinity, the origin of the universe, the beginning of life" may be beyond your understanding, or the refusal thereof, but is definitely not mine.

AND

I am not religious, how can I explain this to you?

I will not become a religious theist/atheist just to please you.

I'm serious my friend, since I have told you at least 500 times in debates that I am not a Theist, yet you still keep referring to me as a Theist.

Note: Theism is defined as: Belief in the existence of a god or gods

Religion is difficult to define but generally involves some belief in a supernatural entity that may (or may not) influence human affairs – or perhaps an afterlife


Question for debate: If one believes in God can they NOT be a Theist and NOT be religious?

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 50 by KenRU]

I say again, "Don't confuse 'em with definitions, their mind's made up"

Defenders of weak positions are prone to re-define words to suit their purpose or cover their inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

When one has a strong position in debate they have no need to warp and twist the language to bolster their arguments.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Many Christians will claim Christianity is not a religion.

What they mean is that in a religion one has to do something - Islam has the classic pray 5 times a day. Others say you have to obey rules or do good. Christianity has no action that a Christian has to take.

I call the others work based religions.

Clearly and for the sake of simple classification Christianity is a religion. Although I am not sure there is a simple rule for saying whether an ideology is or isn't a religion.

For instance Gaia worship is a religion to me and I see many many people doing things to save the environment that are tokenistic but clearly matter within their circle in terms of status. Fewer still will claim to worship Gaia.

It gets my religion spider sense all a tingling.

[rookiebatman]

Many Christians will claim Christianity is not a religion.

What they mean is that in a religion one has to do something - Islam has the classic pray 5 times a day. Others say you have to obey rules or do good. Christianity has no action that a Christian has to take.

I call the others work based religions.

But doesn't that kinda depend on the denomination? There is some "flavors" of Christianity that are a lot more focused on what you do than others.

[arian]

OP "I am not a Theist & not religious but I believe in God" - as posted by Zzyzx

Just to clarify things, how about; "I don't believe or serve the god/gods created by the various religions we have today, which they study through 'theology'"

This just sounds like a vain attempt to elevate your belief system above all others. No theist believes the god of their chosen religion was "created".

Yes, most little children don't believe Santa Claus was created either.

I don't have a 'belief system' which is religion that creates god/gods. I have found our Creator God outside of the tens of thousands of religions that create their own God/gods and the stories that go along with them. I know our Creator through scientific observation, by observing and taking note of the difference between our brain, and our mind.

Our brain is physical, a control center for the functioning of our body. It receives and transmits nerve impulses. Receives impulses from the nerve endings in our entire body, at different parts of the brain. From there our mind/spirit interprets it, and returns the next move/will in signals to the brain, which in turn sends it to the appropriate muscles to complete the will of our mind.

My mind, your mind is infinite and eternal, and it can create and be aware of himself, so our mind must be from God our Creator. Why? Because the mind Is, both eternal and infinite and you cannot create eternal and infinite, and that is the only true explanation for a Creator without having to deal with infinite regress.

You say; no theist believes the god of their chosen religion was "created"? Well let's see if that is true, or even possible?

Theology:
noun
the study of the nature of God/gods and religious beliefs.
•religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed.
plural noun: theologies
"Augustine assimilated Roman ideals into Christian theology"

Creator deities - Wikipedia
A creator deity or creator god (often called the Creator) is a deity or god responsible for the creation of the Earth, world, (cosmos or universe). In monotheism, the single God is often also the Creator. A number of monolatristic traditions separate a secondary creator from a primary transcendent being, identified as a primary creator.
In polytheistic creation, the world often comes into being organically, e.g. sprouting from a primal seed, sexually, by miraculous birth (sometimes by parthenogenesis), by hieros gamos, violently, by the slaying of a primeval monster, or artificially, by a divine demiurge or "craftsman". Sometimes, a god is involved, wittingly or unwittingly, in bringing about creation. Examples include:
African contexts: Mbombo of Bakuba mythology, who vomited out the world upon feeling a stomach ache
Egyptian mythology Atum in Ennead, whose semen becomes the primal components of the universe
Ptah creating the universe by the Word

Unkulunkulu in Zulu mythology

American contexts: Nanabozho (Great Rabbit), Ojibway deity, a shape-shifter and a cocreator of the world
Coatlicue in Aztec mythology
Viracocha in Inca mythology
A trickster deity in the form of a Raven in Inuit mythology

Asian contexts: El or the Elohim of Canaanite religion
Esege Malan in Mongolian mythology, king of the skies
Kamuy in Ainu mythology, who built the world on the back of a trout
Izanagi and Izanami-no-Mikoto in Japanese mythology, who churned the ocean with a spear, creating the islands of Japan
Marduk killing Tiamat in the Babylonian Enûma Eliš
Vishvakarman in Vedic mythology, responsible for the creation of the universe (while in later Puranic period, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are for creation, maintenance and destruction, respectively). The Nasadiya Sukta of the Rig Veda is agnostic about the existence of an omniscient deity but refers to the birth of the universe from a primal seed (retah).

European contexts: The sons of Borr slaying the primeval giant Ymir in Norse mythology
Rod in Slavic mythology
Ipmil or Radien-Attje (Radien Father) in Sami mythology

Oceanic contexts: Ranginui, the Sky Father, and Papatuanuku, the Earth Mother in M�ori mythology

So you're suggesting that all those studying theology don't believe that any of these god/gods were created by man? That every one of them is as real as the other?

And if you believe in a god (including the god of the bible), then theology is exactly how your faith is studied.

Theology (dictionary.com)

noun, plural theologies.
1. the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God's attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity.

2. a particular form, system, branch, or course of this study.

You believe in the god of the bible. You serve this god. The definition of theology accurately depicts how your religion would be studied.

You say; "You serve this god", .. which God? There are over 40,000 different version of gods, all derived from the Bible by those religious people who spend all their time and devote their lives in creating gods. So please, .. tell me which God are you referring to that I worship? What; "Well it's one of those from the 40,000 Christian gods!" OR "You know, one of those that theists study in theology!" which includes the non-Christian gods and all the rest which can be as many as there are people on this earth.

The definition of 'theology' doesn't define my God, the God of the Bible, it defines the meaning of theology.

Now as I have shown that my God who I have found through science, who is the same one described in the Bible is not a Deity/demon. So obviously He is none of the 40,000 Christian gods. Neither is He any of the non-Christian gods, so theology does not study my God "I Am Who I Am", it doesn't even know my God.

Saying that: "Your god is one of those 40,000 Bible gods, so there!" doesn't mean He is, as I have shown many times in many different ways.

Your assertion above could be said by the follower of any other religion, and therefore is no different than someone saying: my religion is the true one, all others are wrong.

So, no, your statement does not clarify anything.

Yes, any one of the hundreds of thousands of religions could say "my religion is the true one, all others are wrong", and they could also say: "My god/gods are the true one" or that "Lucifer is the true god" or "Ranginui, the Sky Father, and Papatuanuku, the Earth Mother are the Creators of the universe", .. but to prove this by evidence with substance is another thing.
There are many, many deities, divine beings.

I'm not saying "my God is better than your god/gods" what I am revealing here is God, the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind "I Am Who I Am", in whose description alone can only be One, .. just as described in the Bible. It is 'impossible' to have another God besides Him, not because I say so, but because who He IS, both Eternal and Infinite.

[Zzyzx]

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I'm not saying "my God is better than your god/gods" what I am revealing here is God, the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind "I Am Who I Am", in whose description alone can only be One, .. just as described in the Bible. It is 'impossible' to have another God besides Him, not because I say so, but because who He IS, both Eternal and Infinite.

How is that different from saying, "My favorite god is the only god because the bible says so?"

Is there any reason to believe that other than "the bible says so" and personal opinion?

[arian]

[Replying to post 55 by Zzyzx]

Fact, as in scientific fact is better than fiction.

If numbers can be infinite, then infinity has no real meaning
If a deity like Lucifer can be God, then the One and ONLY God has no meaning, then even Joseph Smith can be God, or any idea can be, like the Big-bang Evolution can then be 'Creator'.
If 'nothing' is no more nothing, infinity is not infinite, eternal is not eternal, man is not man but an animal, where waves can create boats, where the brain can create the mind, where universes can pop out of nothing for no reason, where the only concept of gods allowed are the ones created by religious people, then my scientific explanation of God could never be understood, especially when science now has been abducted by the religious.

Then everything must be interpreted through some form of religious doctrine otherwise people just can't understand it?

"God"
"What?"
"The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind 'I Am Who I Am'"
"What's that??"
"God"
"??? .. Oh you mean Santa Claus, ISIS, Zeus, .. like that?"
"... sigh, .. yes Santa Claus..."
"Well why didn't you say that in the first place?"
".. yea, yea, .. whatever.."
"OK, now we can understand you, welcome back arian now you are just like us, don't believe in anything! Remember that words are just impulses, nervous spasms created by the brain, they really don't mean anything.

.. tsk, snickers, .. 'Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind' lol, .. you got us worried there for a minute buddy!"

[Zzyzx]

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.. tsk, snickers, .. 'Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind' lol, .. you got us worried there for a minute buddy!"

I find no kind and compassionate way to respond -- but leave evaluation and conclusions to readers.

[arian]

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.. tsk, snickers, .. 'Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind' lol, .. you got us worried there for a minute buddy!"

I find no kind and compassionate way to respond -- but leave evaluation and conclusions to readers.

[arian]

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.. tsk, snickers, .. 'Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind' lol, .. you got us worried there for a minute buddy!"

I find no kind and compassionate way to respond -- but leave evaluation and conclusions to readers.

I understand, I have tried just about every angle, so I figure when all else fails, grab a snickers, ..

[Zzyzx]

.

I understand, I have tried just about every angle, so I figure when all else fails, grab a snickers, ..

One angle that you haven't tried is to present actual, verifiable evidence to substantiate your claims and stories. That might work when opinions, testimonials, conjectures and wild speculation have not.

Remember the "demons are real" tale? That was a good one, but like so many supernatural or paranormal stories and claims, it was not supported at all aside from some personal opinions and testimonials (and more unlikely tales).

Many of us are not inclined to accept "take my word for it" regarding matters of significance or importance. This "skepticism" seems to mystify, befuddle and confuse those who are inclined to base their life or views on what they are told about or what they have come to believe about invisible, undetectable, supernatural entities and events.