"I am NOT an animal"

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"I am NOT an animal"

Many who do not appear to have much knowledge of biology seem indignant when learning that H. sapiens are classified as animals (alternatives being plant and virus). I do not recall ever hearing a Non-Theist object. 1) Is there something about religion that causes this?

You see I am NOT an animal, never was and never in a billion years will I evolve to be one, my family tree all the way back to Adam don't have one ape in it.

2) Why be upset, indignant or in denial about a biological / taxonomic classification?

3) Since humans differ from other animals only in degree (some mental and physical characteristics), what is the objection to recognizing that they are animals?

4) Is anything other than religion (and possibly narcissism) involved?


In the quoted statement someone (whose theological position apparently defies description) claims knowledge of his family tree back to Adam – as though that proves the claimant is not an animal. However, if the hypothetical Adam was human (H. sapiens), he (Adam) classifies as an animal.

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Odd that people come to so many different conclusions from this suposedly god inspired book don't you think.

Not odd at all. It's what's supposed to happen.

"Supposed to happen" implies a plan being followed, which implies that some (thing) devised a plan.

If someone claims knowledge of such a plan 1) present the plan, 2) identify the planner, 3) show that such claims are more than opinion and imagination.

The one thing all of them have in common is that non of them can show that they speak the truth.

What truth might that be? Quite a sum of matters of scripture are self evident and personally examinable.

"Matters of scripture" are decidedly NOT "self-evident." If they were, there would not be thousands of different individual and group "interpretations" that differ significantly from one another.

Please explain something for me.
According to you, how is it that Satan speaks through people? Does he enter their bodies and take control of their vocal cords?

There is no discerning Satan from "self.". All who want to see/promote burning other people alive forever will ALL think/see it's just them.

Opinion noted. Is there evidence from the real world to verify the contention?

And so will you.

Is this a prognostication / prophesy by a seer?

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Odd that people come to so many different conclusions from this suposedly god inspired book don't you think.

Not odd at all. It's what's supposed to happen.

"Supposed to happen" implies a plan being followed, which implies that some (thing) devised a plan.

Scripturally, yes. It's totally meant to divide.

If someone claims knowledge of such a plan 1) present the plan, 2) identify the planner, 3) show that such claims are more than opinion and imagination.

Divide from evil. Oh, such a vile enterprise.

Matters of scripture" are decidedly NOT "self-evident." If they were, there would not be thousands of different individual and group "interpretations" that differ significantly from one another.

See previous for various causes.

Please explain something for me.
According to you, how is it that Satan speaks through people? Does he enter their bodies and take control of their vocal cords?

Evil thoughts defile people. Scripturre sources then as an "external to internal" impetus, and is quite ingenious about it.

Opinion noted. Is there evidence from the real world to verify the contention?

Anyone can examine the activity of their own thoughts. They can also "check" their conscience.

And so will you.

Is this a prognostication / prophesy by a seer?[/quote]

These particular facts of scripture seem to always slip by you guys for some reason. Go figure.

[Zzyzx]

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Odd that people come to so many different conclusions from this suposedly god inspired book don't you think.

Not odd at all. It's what's supposed to happen.

"Supposed to happen" implies a plan being followed, which implies that some (thing) devised a plan.

Scripturally, yes. It's totally meant to divide.

Yes, according to ancient tales and opinions designated as "scripture" there is / was a "plan" by one of the invisible, undetectable, supernatural beings. Is there any indication that the real world follows the supposed plan?

If someone claims knowledge of such a plan 1) present the plan, 2) identify the planner, 3) show that such claims are more than opinion and imagination.

Divide from evil. Oh, such a vile enterprise.

Let's try again. 1) present the plan, 2) identify the planner, 3) show that such claims are more than opinion and imagination.

Matters of scripture" are decidedly NOT "self-evident." If they were, there would not be thousands of different individual and group "interpretations" that differ significantly from one another.

See previous for various causes.

What appears to be "evident" is that "scriptures" can be "interpreted" to mean whatever a person or group wishes them to mean.

Evil thoughts defile people. Scripturre sources then as an "external to internal" impetus, and is quite ingenious about it.

Opinion noted. Is there evidence from the real world to verify the contention?

Anyone can examine the activity of their own thoughts. They can also "check" their conscience.

How, exactly, does someone examining their thoughts and conscience indicate an EXTERNAL origin rather than their own internal mental processes?

And so will you.

Is this a prognostication / prophesy by a seer?

These particular facts of scripture seem to always slip by you guys for some reason. Go figure.

A lot of fantasy, fiction and wishful thinking "slips by" me and others.

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Yes, according to ancient tales and opinions

And that would of course be just your opinion as well.

It is no mystery that human nature is divisive, even tribal.

Scripture is in many ways "dependent" on what the individual reader is looking for (or not) or what it is they are trying to "get" out of it. This phenom is every bit about the reflections of the readers.

designated as "scripture" there is / was a "plan" by one of the invisible, undetectable, supernatural beings. Is there any indication that the real world follows the supposed plan?

The most interesting parts of the text revolve around the predictability of the of internal evil in man. It's quite amazing in this direction. Not that any of that is going to change. Quite the opposite, that it "enlarges" and grows. And that man operates very similarly to an evil robot like drone as a consortium. And equally, that "a man" takes automatic personal offense at this internal sight.

If someone claims knowledge of such a plan 1) present the plan, 2) identify the planner, 3) show that such claims are more than opinion and imagination.

Divide from evil. Oh, such a vile enterprise.

Let's try again. 1) present the plan,

Plan? There is no individual capable of defining the whole picture. That is utter nonsense out of the gate. God "has" a plan for every individual component, whatever that may be.

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

2) identify the planner,

Every player has a part, good/bad or indifferent, at every level. If creation shows us anything it is that creation is wonderfully complex. Pictures of near infinity exist all around us, even within us.

3) show that such claims are more than opinion and imagination.

Any half wit can observe the evil nature/results/workings of man. This is, as stated prior, the most interesting part of the scriptures. The study of man's internal wicked intellect. The "external pictures" of the O.T. in many ways are a "mirror" of the individuals who engage it. Scripture continually unfolds it's treasures. It was never a case of "one and done" from what went on prior.

People, perhaps such as most of you, love to skim the surface and play the pooh pooh game. That's really all you can see. All you "want" to see.

There is much more to see than meets the eye. And the various principles to "unlock" the texts are there to be tracked out. But to a surface surfer, they will just skim and won't see a thing.

What appears to be "evident" is that "scriptures" can be "interpreted" to mean whatever a person or group wishes them to mean.

Undoubtedly. A megalomaniac in heart will be led directly into a dead end, proving to himself that "he/she" is the "chosen one" of some odd sorts. Happens all the time. It's quite vicious in this direction. But the "viciousness" wasn't in the text, but the reader. I may for example (and I have) concluded that God saves all people. Another reader may, in his own mind, conclude that he is the only one saved, and even will think he can prove it from the scriptures. Fortunately there are several "way markers" to set the courses. This is one of my favorites:

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Children of the devil DO rise up when they meet the scriptures and the above is also a great checkpoint in life as well, even with those who are not involved with the scriptures.

Love is Divine.

Evil thoughts defile people. Scripturre sources then as an "external to internal" impetus, and is quite ingenious about it.

Opinion noted. Is there evidence from the real world to verify the contention?

Anyone can examine the activity of their own thoughts. They can also "check" their conscience.

How, exactly, does someone examining their thoughts and conscience indicate an EXTERNAL origin rather than their own internal mental processes?

Scripture doesn't present that the human conscience is "localized" i.e. entirely self centered and located. It presents for example that the "external stimuli" of law will cause an adverse or contrary reaction within the mind of the readers that is entirely predictable as to contrariness or the "thoughts" of disobedience, internally. Small example. Scripture has it's most interesting studies and components in this direction and analysis.

Side note of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUV89At3Fxg

A lot of fantasy, fiction and wishful thinking "slips by" me and others.

More like intentional but unknown by the reader, natural or primitive repulsion. There is part of our mind/heart that is allowed to and can penetrate some of the more interesting/sophisticated and abstract presentations (buried in allegory) contained in scriptures and part of our mind/heart that can not.

I would call the bulk of surface approaches to the scriptures primitive, unsophisticated, natural and utterly incapable. All of the what I'll call the far more legitimate presentations of scriptures are contained in allegorical conveyances. These allegorical dissections and practices were the "methods" of understanding of Jesus/Paul/John for example.

There is in essence a "natural" trap set up in the scriptures for one part of us, and a spiritual engagement for another part of us. And nary the twain will meet. Make of it what you can or not. It really doesn't matter in any case.

Gods Love doesn't change, nor do His Patterns of engagements with the evil quotients within man. Both remain entirely active and in effect, currently. A natural/carnal mind however will never see it or be aware of it.

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I hear the voices of evil in believers everytime they promote burning people alive forever in fire. I know that is SATAN speaking in them and through them.

Correction: You may THINK that a proposed "Satan" is involved (after taking the word of those who write or speak opinions about invisible. undetectable. proposed "spirits); however, opinions (thinking) is not taken as evidence of anything beyond personal belies. It is prudent to remember that this is debate -- not a podium for preaching unsubstantiated beliefs or pretending to have claimed special knowledge. What you "know" (believe) is of no significance.

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I hear the voices of evil in believers everytime they promote burning people alive forever in fire. I know that is SATAN speaking in them and through them.

Correction: You may THINK that a proposed "Satan" is involved (after taking the word of those who write or speak opinions about invisible. undetectable. proposed "spirits); however, opinions (thinking) is not taken as evidence of anything beyond personal belies. It is prudent to remember that this is debate -- not a podium for preaching unsubstantiated beliefs or pretending to have claimed special knowledge. What you "know" (believe) is of no significance.

I've delineated this matter many times. The "merits" of what you may think/know/don't know about any given matter as it is outlined by the scriptures is one thing. Most debunkers here continually claim they know scripture, but when backed into a corner they really don't know. Then they use the common retort, i.e. "well, Satan isn't real." It's very unlikely you have any scriptural idea what that even means to begin with from a scriptural perspective.

Most of you pick up what you know about Satan from movies.

[Danmark]

I've delineated this matter many times. The "merits" of what you may think/know/don't know about any given matter as it is outlined by the scriptures is one thing. Most debunkers here continually claim they know scripture, but when backed into a corner they really don't know. Then they use the common retort, i.e. "well, Satan isn't real." It's very unlikely you have any scriptural idea what that even means to begin with from a scriptural perspective.

Most of you pick up what you know about Satan from movies.

This is simply a false and blanket statement. According to you others have mere opinions, while you claim to have a corner on the truth. We may disagree on the meaning of a passage or on whether the passage accurately reflects reality. You haven't demonstrated a single instance where someone does not "know scripture." Yes, the Bible talks about a Satan character. That does not make this "Satan" real.

The error you've made in almost every post is your claim that because those who disagree with your interpretation or with the supernatural claims of 'scripture' is that they don't 'know' scripture. This claim is false.

Let's be clear. Many here have advance degrees in theology or Biblical studies; they 'know' scripture, but they do not believe it accurately represents reality. Your continual refrain that because someone disagrees with you on either the meaning of, or the accuracy of scripture is wearing thin.

[squint]

I've delineated this matter many times. The "merits" of what you may think/know/don't know about any given matter as it is outlined by the scriptures is one thing. Most debunkers here continually claim they know scripture, but when backed into a corner they really don't know. Then they use the common retort, i.e. "well, Satan isn't real." It's very unlikely you have any scriptural idea what that even means to begin with from a scriptural perspective.

Most of you pick up what you know about Satan from movies.

This is simply a false and blanket statement. According to you others have mere opinions, while you claim to have a corner on the truth. We may disagree on the meaning of a passage or on whether the passage accurately reflects reality. You haven't demonstrated a single instance where someone does not "know scripture." Yes, the Bible talks about a Satan character. That does not make this "Satan" real.

The error you've made in almost every post is your claim that because those who disagree with your interpretation or with the supernatural claims of 'scripture' is that they don't 'know' scripture. This claim is false.

Let's be clear. Many here have advance degrees in theology or Biblical studies; they 'know' scripture, but they do not believe it accurately represents reality. Your continual refrain that because someone disagrees with you on either the meaning of, or the accuracy of scripture is wearing thin.

Are you going to entertain me now with another supposed rock solid expose of scripture? Appeal to authority? Argumentum ad numerum/populous?

Having a degree in theology or Biblical studies and not believing is like a scientist who doesn't believe in science. But thanks for the humorous sidebar in any case.

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I hear the voices of evil in believers everytime they promote burning people alive forever in fire. I know that is SATAN speaking in them and through them.

Correction: You may THINK that a proposed "Satan" is involved (after taking the word of those who write or speak opinions about invisible. undetectable. proposed "spirits); however, opinions (thinking) is not taken as evidence of anything beyond personal belies. It is prudent to remember that this is debate -- not a podium for preaching unsubstantiated beliefs or pretending to have claimed special knowledge. What you "know" (believe) is of no significance.

I've delineated this matter many times.

Have you demonstrated that your "delineations" are truthful and accurate – or are they just opinions, testimonials and unverifiable tales (ancient or modern)?

The "merits" of what you may think/know/don't know about any given matter as it is outlined by the scriptures is one thing. Most debunkers here continually claim they know scripture, but when backed into a corner they really don't know. Then they use the common retort, i.e. "well, Satan isn't real." It's very unlikely you have any scriptural idea what that even means to begin with from a scriptural perspective.

I do not pretend to know anything about "Satan", do you?

We do not debate here "from a scriptural perspective" and "scripture" is not considered authoritative or proof of truth. There are sub-forums set aside for bible believers to talk among themselves, but in C&A debate does not assume that religious tales are true.

If someone claims to "know that is SATAN speaking in them and through them" they are expected and required under Forum Rules and Guidelines to demonstrate that they speak truthfully and accurately. If they cannot substantiate their claim the honorable course of action is to acknowledge they cannot and to retract the claim.

Most of you pick up what you know about Satan from movies.

Here you are addressing someone who does NOT watch movies or television, but who does read quite a bit. The world of make believe does not influence my decisions or positions. Imaginary characters and situations are not of interest. Notice that I not a Theist.

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Have you demonstrated that your "delineations" are truthful and accurate – or are they just opinions, testimonials and unverifiable tales (ancient or modern)?

By who's measures? By who's dictates? You want to be the Filter Imposer for all things legitimate?

We do not debate here "from a scriptural perspective" and "scripture" is not considered authoritative or proof of truth.

Most of you continually "claim" to know what scripture says. Do you?

There are sub-forums set aside for bible believers to talk among themselves, but in C&A debate does not assume that religious tales are true.

Then the claimants that scriptures are religious tales should refrain from pretending they know scripture or anything it presents.