What percentage of the Bible do you/should you follow?

[atheist buddy]

There are hundreds upon hundreds of edicts in the Bible.

Stuff ranging from "Don't murder" to "Kill any two men caught having gay sex". From "Don't allow women to speak in church", to "Rape any virgin who's family you killed". From "Don't steal" to "Don't wear a t-shirt made of two different fabrics". From "Love thy neighbor" to "The just decree of God is that people who gossip deserve death". From "don't work on the Sabbath" to "Kill anybody who works on the Sabbath".

Questions for debate:

What percentage of the Bible's edicts and decrees do you follow?

On what basis do you determine which decrees should be followed and which ones shouldn't?

Are there any decrees in the Bible that if you knew your neighbor followed them, you'd be tempted to call the police, or move to a different neighborhood, or forbid your children from visiting your neighbor's home?

If you look back to 500 or 1000 years ago, would you guess that on average people followed a higher or lower percentage of Bible decrees than you do now?

If you had to guess, would you think that 500 or 1000 years from now, if things continue to follow recent trends, people on average will follow a higher or lower percentage of Bible decrees?

[sf]

The answer is a number. Like 50%. Or 20%. Or 70%.

A simple question ("What percentage of the Bible do you/should you follow?") deserves a simple answer: 100%

[Zzyzx]

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How long has "Adonai" been popular (or worshiped or whatever)? A few thousand years? That is miniscule compared to the length of time H. sapiens have existed (150,000 to 200,000 years according to anthropologists " people who study such things).

How would we know, since writing is only believed to have existed since 3,200 BC?

I do not disagree with the 3200 BCE date for origin of writing. Thus, anyone who claims to KNOW which of the proposed "gods" were worshiped before that time is speculating. Right?

(That happens to be less than 600 years after the start of the Hebrew calendar, which is said to mark the date of creation

"Date of creation" is religious speculation (that has no merit in debate unless it can be verified).

In fact, isn't all of religion speculation since claims and stories cannot be shown to be anything more than opinion, testimonial, conjecture, unverifiable tales, etc -- and aren't all of the thousands of "gods" speculative since they have not been shown to be anything more than products of human imagination?

[Freethinker23]

I view the Bible the same way I view any other work that espouses views on how to live one's life. I consider each idea and try to follow those that I think have merit and disregard those that I disagree with. I don't follow anything in the Bible because it is in the Bible, but, rather, because it stands on it's own intrinsic value.

[bluethread]

I view the Bible the same way I view any other work that espouses views on how to live one's life. I consider each idea and try to follow those that I think have merit and disregard those that I disagree with. I don't follow anything in the Bible because it is in the Bible, but, rather, because it stands on it's own intrinsic value.

Just a note. There is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is determined by the consumer. Therefore, everything has a different value based on whom you ask.

[Zzyzx]

.

There is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is determined by the consumer. Therefore, everything has a different value based on whom you ask.

Finally, something with which I can agree.

Thus, no absolute or universal values have been assigned by one of the hypothetical "creators" or "gods." Right?

[Blastcat]

I feel the need to point out that the "dark ages" are "dark" because of the rarity of historical records, as opposed to being a particular primitive or backwards period of time.

So our lack of historical records should make us conclude it was a happy time for humanity?

[atheist buddy]

On what basis do you determine which decrees should be followed and which ones shouldn't?

Does my present circumstance make it possible?

What do you mean by "circumstances make it possible"?

For example, the Lord Adonai commands that you kill gay men whom you catch in the act.

If you do that today, you will go to jail.

Is that what you mean by "circumstances make it possible"? Do you mean that you only follow God's law if it doesn't conflict with man's law, which is much more important than God's law?

The only thing preventing you from throwing stones at gay people, as commanded by the great Adonai, is that if you do that, you'll go to jail, where gay people will do all sorts of things to you.

So is it fear of harm in this life that prevents you from fullfilling God's law? Is that what you mean by "follow what is possible for you to follow"?

Are you admitting that God's law is inferior to man's law?

Where do the Scriptures require me to take the law into my own hands and act as judge, jury and executioner?

You will not get away with not answering the question by creating the loophole whereby murdering children is a group effort in the Bible, rather than the actions of an individual.

What if you and three of your buddies were voted the Elders of your religious community and somebody brought to you a child who had cursed his parents, and asked you and your fellow Elders to deliberate and afford the child a due process within your religious community. On the basis of reliable testimony of two adult male witnesses, it turns out that the child did indeed curse his parents. Your fellow elders vote for killing the child, you agree with them that the evidence is strong enough by Torah law to grant this execution. You are an Elder of your religious community and it's your responsibility to make a ruling on this case.

Do you kill the child in accordance with the Torah, even though it's against the law of man and know that you will have to spend the rest of your life in jail?

Or do you acknowledge that the law of man is more imprtant than the Torah and spare the child in defiance of God's will?

Or what if you are one of the members of a religious group but not an elder. The elders rule that a child must be killed for having cursed his parents. Do you call the police and try to prevent this executions sanctioned by your elders after due process was carried out within your religious community? Or do you sit there doing nothing and accept spending the next 20 years in jail as accessory to murder?

You can't get out of this Bluethread, you will HAVE TO admit that God's Law, in your eyes, is secondary to Man's Law. No way out.

If you found out that your neighbors are very very devout literalist biblicists who have the courage of their convictions and follow the Torah to the letter, and have a habit of killing unruly children in deference to Exodus 21, would you allow your children to play with the neighbor's children in their house? If you found out that your neighbor killed your child because your child was misbehaving, would you thank your neighbor for doing the lord's work, or would you call the police?

If my neighbor followed Torah, the police would have been called long before the children were killed. In fact, the children could not have been executed until there was a trial with diligent enquiry. Does any of this sound familiar, or are you just improvising off of a script?

Nope. The religious zealots would not have called the police. That's as absurd as assuming that in an internal dispute between two israelites, the injured parties would have appealed to the Romans rather than to the elders of their religious community. If the Literalist Biblicist suspected that your child had cursed you or committed any other offense deserving of the deat penalty, he would NOT call the police, he would call the Elders of his religous community and they would decide in a "trial" whether or not to kill your child.

If they decided to kill your child, would you call the police, or would you thank them for doing the Lord's work?

[atheist buddy]

The answer is a number. Like 50%. Or 20%. Or 70%.

A simple question ("What percentage of the Bible do you/should you follow?") deserves a simple answer: 100%

Awesome! So what kind of rocks do you use to stone gay people to death? I like to use river boulders, they are the right size to fit in the palm of my hand, and they're nice and aerodynamic. Of course generic rocks, having jaggered edges, do more laceration damage, but it's a matter of preference.

Hey, since we both follow Leviticus 20:13, wanna take a flight to San Francisco together next weekend, and have ourselves a nice gay-killing rampage?



By the way, the other day I was in church with my wife, and she dared to speak in direct defiance to 1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35. So obviously when we got home I beat her rather severely, but not so hard that she would die, of course. Anyway, I use a broomstick to beat my wife when she speaks in church. What implementation of punishment do you use for when your wife acts as though she was a human being instead of acting like a woman/chattel?

[Psalm139]

There are hundreds upon hundreds of edicts in the Bible.

Stuff ranging from "Don't murder" to "Kill any two men caught having gay sex". From "Don't allow women to speak in church", to "Rape any virgin who's family you killed". From "Don't steal" to "Don't wear a t-shirt made of two different fabrics". From "Love thy neighbor" to "The just decree of God is that people who gossip deserve death". From "don't work on the Sabbath" to "Kill anybody who works on the Sabbath".

Questions for debate:

What percentage of the Bible's edicts and decrees do you follow?

Zero percent. I don't follow a book with words in it. I follow the ONE who taught me everything I know today, which is where the original writings of the prophets and saints came from.

On what basis do you determine which decrees should be followed and which ones shouldn't?

I determine what is true in the Bible by what I was taught by the ONE who inspired the prophets and saints to write and speak for Him.

Are there any decrees in the Bible that if you knew your neighbor followed them, you'd be tempted to call the police, or move to a different neighborhood, or forbid your children from visiting your neighbor's home?

I do not fear any neighbor today by knowing what is true in the Bible and what is not true.

If you look back to 500 or 1000 years ago, would you guess that on average people followed a higher or lower percentage of Bible decrees than you do now?

It can be a very confusing way to live to be guessing at what happened in the past. It's much easier to live life knowing what is true in the Bible and what is not true.

If you had to guess, would you think that 500 or 1000 years from now, if things continue to follow recent trends, people on average will follow a higher or lower percentage of Bible decrees?

I don't have to guess at what happens in the future. I know what is going to happen to God's people.

[Bust Nak]

I feel the need to point out that the "dark ages" are "dark" because of the rarity of historical records, as opposed to being a particular primitive or backwards period of time.

So our lack of historical records should make us conclude it was a happy time for humanity?

No, it's just that "there was a time when religion ruled the world. It is known as the Dark Ages" is more of a soundbite than a substantial argument.