"Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:05 pm

The above is a quote from Franklin Graham...

Dividing people into categories of "saved" and "unsaved".

This phraseology is common among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.

Question for debate...how does this thinking square with Jesus teaching to "judge not"?

and is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:47 pm

.

Elijah John wrote: Question for debate...how does this thinking square with Jesus teaching to "judge not"?

It may not square with Jesus but it gives people a way to feel superior while increasing church income.

Elijah John wrote: and is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?

A great deal of judging seems common among those who claim to follow the example of Jesus. Perhaps they are not good at walking the talk.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:57 pm

Let me refine the OP just a bit and address this question to the Fundamentalists who may be reading this.

Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:02 am

Elijah John wrote: The above is a quote from Franklin Graham...

Dividing people into categories of "saved" and "unsaved".

This phraseology is common among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.

Question for debate...how does this thinking square with Jesus teaching to "judge not"?

and is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?

I believe that you may have mistaken the interpretation of the word judgement to mean to discriminate rather than to mean to condemn. We are not to condemn anyone because on only GOD can see the heart and we know from the experience of this very forum about righteous actions being attributed to sinful motives. But we are certainly supposed to discriminate between righteous and sinful behaviours without condemnation for self righteousness.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:05 am

Elijah John wrote: ...
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?

Yes, because it is the truth. But I do not apply any label to anyone as saved or unsaved... that is between them and their GOD and I remember my sins against HIM when I was in full roar - no one would ever have though I could be saved.

Dropship · Post by **Dropship** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:47 am

Elijah John wrote: ..is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?

If people think they're saved, it's just wishful thinking..

Even Paul never presumed to pompously think he was saved-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)

Youkilledkenny · Post by **Youkilledkenny** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:58 am

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

As a non-believer, I wouldn't think being able to figure out who is saved and who isn't is hard and, as far as I can see it, not a 'judgement thing'.
Maybe I've been too far removed from it though

Dropship · Post by **Dropship** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:51 am

In fact even Jesus warned snooty christians-
"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:21 am

ttruscott wrote:
Elijah John wrote: ...
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
... But I do not apply any label to anyone as saved or unsaved... that is between them and their GOD......

I agree with this part of your post. So who is ANY human to say who is saved or unsaved?

Not a Universalist here, and I do not believe that salvation is universal..so I am not arguing against the premise that there are saved and unsaved folks.

But to sort out who is who, and which is which is God's business, imo...or has he delegated that aurthority to Franklin Graham and his like minded Fundamentalists and Evangelicals?

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:12 pm

From Post 3:

Elijah John wrote: ...
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?

Sure it is.

I judge such folks to be fear mongers.

All I see is an appeal to the less sophisticated, who'd fall for unsupportable Christian claims of salvation and dangnation.

Debating Christianity and Religion

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