The above is a quote from Franklin Graham...
Dividing people into categories of "saved" and "unsaved".
This phraseology is common among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.
Question for debate...how does this thinking square with Jesus teaching to "judge not"?
and is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
"Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
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- Savant
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"Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Post #11
I believe if I go to hell simply for not having faith, and someone who commits atrocities but repents and is saved can go to heaven; then I'll be happy in hell because there will be plenty of Good people there.Elijah John wrote: Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
- OnceConvinced
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #12Dropship wrote:If people think they're saved, it's just wishful thinking..Elijah John wrote: ..is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
Even Paul never presumed to pompously think he was saved-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)
How can you be a Christian and not be saved? Surely to be a Christian one must first be saved? That's what I always believed. See John 3
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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- Savant
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #13Couple of things...Only God can ultimately decide on the sincerity of any given individual's conversion..OnceConvinced wrote:Dropship wrote:If people think they're saved, it's just wishful thinking..Elijah John wrote: ..is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
Even Paul never presumed to pompously think he was saved-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)
How can you be a Christian and not be saved? Surely to be a Christian one must first be saved? That's what I always believed. See John 3
And of course there ARE some who profess but do not obey. In other words, hypocrites. Remember Jesus "Lord Lord" statement?
Also there are several versus that suggest salvation is a process...including the one where Jesus talks about taking the straight and narrow path.
And even Paul, doesn't he compare salvation to a race to be run?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #14If you simply want to be Jesus's mate you're in with a chance..OnceConvinced wrote:
How can you be a Christian and not be saved? Surely to be a Christian one must first be saved? That's what I always believed. See John 3
"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends"- (John 15:15)
- OnceConvinced
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #15Agreed.Elijah John wrote:Couple of things...Only God can ultimately decide on the sincerity of any given individual's conversion..OnceConvinced wrote:Dropship wrote:If people think they're saved, it's just wishful thinking..Elijah John wrote: ..is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
Even Paul never presumed to pompously think he was saved-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)
How can you be a Christian and not be saved? Surely to be a Christian one must first be saved? That's what I always believed. See John 3
Then they would not actually be Christians then right? Not real ones.Elijah John wrote: And of course there ARE some who profess but do not obey. In other words, hypocrites. Remember Jesus "Lord Lord" statement?
Yes, there appears to be a lot of fine print about what makes a true Christian. Trying to determine who are the real ones is a futile exercise.Elijah John wrote: Also there are several versus that suggest salvation is a process...including the one where Jesus talks about taking the straight and narrow path.
And even Paul, doesn't he compare salvation to a race to be run?
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #16.
Of course, they are a bit cagy about how the determination can be made (other than just spouting an opinion). Perhaps it is a trade secret shared only among the elect REAL Christians -- who already have their ticket (and perhaps a club membership card signed by God).
Strange though, some self-identified REAL Christians are not recognized as such by other REAL Christians -- and vice versa. Maybe it goes by who shouts the loudest or talks the most? Jesus encouraged that, didn't he?
It isn't difficult to determine who is a REAL Christian. Just ask any number of Christians who post here -- the ones who KNOW who is and who isn't.OnceConvinced wrote: Trying to determine who are the real ones is a futile exercise.
Of course, they are a bit cagy about how the determination can be made (other than just spouting an opinion). Perhaps it is a trade secret shared only among the elect REAL Christians -- who already have their ticket (and perhaps a club membership card signed by God).
Strange though, some self-identified REAL Christians are not recognized as such by other REAL Christians -- and vice versa. Maybe it goes by who shouts the loudest or talks the most? Jesus encouraged that, didn't he?
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence