Why won't God convince atheists?

[Hatuey]

Many atheists are so for valid and defendable reasons. Why would a punishing deity choose not to make himself known to reasonable people who do not believe he exists?

A decent god would know how to convince decent people to believe and care for him as he cared for those decent people.

What sort of god doesn't care to convince sensible people that he exists?

[KenRU]

Never heard that excuse before Bro...... I have been accused of pisoning the well, because I say athiests are lazy to research all the proofs that show the Lord is real.

And yet statistically, the opposite is true (as Zzyzx has already shown) the more education one has, the less likely to be religious one becomes.

So, your presupposition of atheists being lazy is twicefold not true - as they are clearly searching for answers and getting degrees (not lazy) by studying in college and as a result of that effort, that knowledge tends to lead one AWAY from religiosity.

So, perhaps you need to rethink your bias?

-all the best

[Blastcat]

Never heard that excuse before Bro...... I have been accused of pisoning the well, because I say athiests are lazy to research all the proofs that show the Lord is real.

If that is your accusation against me, so be it.

Well, it's just a bogus form of argument., that's all.
You don't prove YOUR point by calling your opponent lazy.
How you should prove your point is by bringing sound reason and evidence for it. Your opponent's CHARACTER has nothing to do with YOUR position, so it's off topic.

[Davidjayjordan]

[Replying to post 572 by rbarton]

Faith overrules logic and math every time, doesn't it?

Not the faith of athiests who have faith in nothingness and so get rewardedwith nothingness and yet irrationally thinking nothingness is all there is.

Coming from someone that can't spell atheists, this is not a surprise. You see, atheists don't find any of the god concepts available as being justified to be true.

All this faith of atheism crap you spout is just that. Why you ask? Because you do not need to believe in nothingness nor have irrational thinking about nothingness in order to be an atheist. All you have to do us not find god concepts as credible (which can change and then so would the 'atheist' status).

What you are doing is not debating, but poisoning the well.
You should care about your credibility I would think.

They must get out more, and get real faith in real principles and get into real life.... but if they are afraid and reticent, so be it, their choice.

They should also stop eating babies too!

Can't over-ride their godly given FREE CHOICE. Its their life for a while.

Really, it's impossible for atheist to over-ride some godly given free choice? This is not even logical. If it were a 'free choice' given by some god, then they should be able make that choice 'freely'.

Poisoning the well (or attempting to poison the well) is a rhetorical device where adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that the target person is about to say. Poisoning the well can be a special case of argumentum ad hominem.

I take note of where you are coming from clownboat.... and shall duly try to avoid

[Davidjayjordan]

Never heard that excuse before Bro...... I have been accused of pisoning the well, because I say athiests are lazy to research all the proofs that show the Lord is real.

If that is your accusation against me, so be it.

Well, it's just a bogus form of argument., that's all.
You don't prove YOUR point by calling your opponent lazy.
How you should prove your point is by bringing sound reason and evidence for it. Your opponent's CHARACTER has nothing to do with YOUR position, so it's off topic.

No, I have been posting exact timeframes and evidences that scientifically show there is a DESIGN

SEE my recent posts, and therefore I have proof in the pudding..... and have followed up on my claims and assertions.

One posting does not a claim make.... its the body of work or writings or MATH that does....

But so sorry if I have suggested athiests are lazy, but I reckon the best solution to that supposed problem of theirs, is that they get busy and research and do the math as I have proposed. Just a suggestion.

[Hatuey]

[Replying to post 585 by pshun2404]

God supposedly designed the system. He could have designed it differently. Your analogy fails because mom and dad didn't design the cars and highways. If I were God, I wouldn't allow sin have that sort of separating power. Sounds rather silly for God to allow sin to be so strong.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to Hatuey]

Regarding post 3

Only that's not the way it works. OUR sin separates us from HIM not the other way around.

The only thing wrong with that is that you don't have any evidence for the opinion. Maybe it IS the other way around, after all. Someone who drowns everyone on earth ... isn't good in my books. And that was HIS plan... no human planned to have the earth drowned in toto except for a few.

To me, those actions.. are those of a moral monster.

God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

Yeah, that's what a lot of Christians say. I don't see the evidence to support that claim, though. If it was his plan to have the wicked die.. and if his plan was good.. oh well, maybe it was his plan to have as many people die as possible. Because more people will die than go to heaven, right?

Seems to me that a perfect god who can do everything gets what he wants... and wants what he gets. More people die than "live" therefore, god's plan seems to be to have as many people die as possible.

Do not eat of the fruit or you will die is not a threat it is warning from love regarding a foreseen consequence like when your mom or dad told you, "Thou shalt not run out into the busy street for in the day you do you shall surely get hit by a car"...

Except the human parents didn't put the traffic there to begin with. The human parent's can't make the traffic disappear in the blink of an eye. The human parents can't SAVE a dying kid in a blink of an eye..

Your god apparently PUT the danger for the kids, could have prevented it.. planned it that way, and just watched them get into trouble. That's what I would call an EVIL parent, and an evil god.

God has spoken to many (not everyone)

How is THAT fair? He talks to SOME of his kids? Terrible parent.. terrible god.

and has even appeared to many (not everyone)

Horrible behavior. I'd say evil.

and has spoken in such a way they knew it was God (but not to everyone)

Again, evidence that your god is evil.

but because everyone has not experienced these things does not mean God is not.

Yeah, true. God can be anything at all.. imaginary beings are like that... BUT .. the way you describe your imaginary god, according to ME, it's evil.

According to what God has revealed

Well, we have no evidence that God exists.. or that it has revealed anything or that any persons have received this revelation. All of this are mere unprovable claims and should be discounted as such.

if you really look at the things that have been made you cannot deny God,

Of course we can. We can use sound logic.

but you can reject God and the knowledge of God and live in the reprobation of your own mind.

In the reprobation of my own mind.. I have no idea what you mean.

This is a state where you believe your self to be all the lord you need

It's as if somehow, being a slave is necessary. I don't believe that's quite true. I believe that every human is his own person..

as if you are a god unto yourself

AS IF.. no.

I don't believe in gods.. I don't believe that I'm a god. Sorry.

deciding good and evil for yourself

Oh, any human can do that. No problem there unless you happen to suffer from some mental illness.

(or through the consensus of a bunch of self lords).

ok.. I accept that.. people get together as equals and decide what laws to create so that as many people can prosper. Sounds great.

No gods needed.

[Blastcat]

Never heard that excuse before Bro...... I have been accused of pisoning the well, because I say athiests are lazy to research all the proofs that show the Lord is real.

If that is your accusation against me, so be it.

Well, it's just a bogus form of argument., that's all.
You don't prove YOUR point by calling your opponent lazy.
How you should prove your point is by bringing sound reason and evidence for it. Your opponent's CHARACTER has nothing to do with YOUR position, so it's off topic.

No, I have been posting exact timeframes and evidences that scientifically show there is a DESIGN

Hold on there a minute.. I'm trying to talk about your contention that the atheist is wrong due to his laziness. That's poisoning the well.. the lazy atheist can't have a rational argument.. too lazy.

So, from now on, anyone drinking from the well of the ATHEIST.. will drink only lazy poison and not valid reason. That's poisoning the well.

I think you may be struggling with the concept?

I should revise my last post. This isn't only a bogus argument because it's poisoning the well, but it's also an ad hominem. Instead of presenting a valid argument you insult the character of your opponent.

It's a double whammy of bogus argumentation.

SEE my recent posts, and therefore I have proof in the pudding..... and have followed up on my claims and assertions.

I was only referring to when you say atheists are wrong due to laziness.
If this here post is an example of your reasoning abilities, I will pass on seeing your other posts.

One posting does not a claim make.... its the body of work or writings or MATH that does....

I was only referring to when you say atheists are wrong due to laziness.

But so sorry if I have suggested atheists are lazy, but I reckon the best solution to that supposed problem of theirs, is that they get busy and research and do the math as I have proposed. Just a suggestion.

You just did it again, you went and called atheists lazy to help your case. How many times do you figure you have to repeat a bogus argument before it gets to make sense all of a sudden?

[OnceConvinced]

but most atheists have their minds made up and so close their minds and hearts to HIS EXISTENCE.

How can you know this? Can you read their minds? Is this simply your opinion? Do you not think that your God would be able to convince even the hardest of skeptics? Or is your God that impotent?

The truth IMO is that there are many ways for athiests to come to know the Lord.

So do you wish to retract the previous claim then? Clearly it's not true.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but the honor of kings to search it out. (Proverbs somewhere)

Yes, if God is real, then he is great at convincing people he doesn't exist.

IE It takes a little search and a little effort but people want to be spoonfed truths without even [putting forth any effort whatsoever. Man's problem is he is lazy and complaining which accounts for much of his blindness.

It may be that some are lazy and put little effort into finding truth. I am an atheist, but I spent well over 30 years searching for the truth and even believed I'd found it at an early age. I diligently served Jesus all that time with complete faith. But yet here I am. An atheist now. No amount of effort is going to make a difference unless the truth is actually there to find.

All science proves creation, proves there is a Designer who designed the DESIGN.

Another matter of opinion. From what I can see science disproves creations and if it was designed then it was incompetent or even malevolent design. It all depends on how we see things doesn't it? We are all different. What works for one doesn't work for someone else.

Want proof study science...amazing truths and amazing connections.....

Be careful not just to focus on the beauty and wonders of nature. There is also many horrors of nature. Terrible things, that if they were indeed created would make God a malevolent and evil designer.

Not the faith of athiests who have faith in nothingness

I know of no atheist that has faith in nothingness. I certainly don't have faith in nothingness. What on earth are you talking about?

and so get rewardedwith nothingness

Why would any atheist expect any kind of reward?

and yet irrationally thinking nothingness is all there is.

Which atheists are these?

They must get out more, and get real faith in real principles and get into real life.... but if they are afraid and reticent, so be it, their choice.

Which Atheists do you know who are afraid? It seems that it's Christians that are the ones that are afraid. Afraid of the devil. Afraid of God's wrath. Afraid of Hell.

Also why would anyone want faith? Faith leads you to believe in all sorts of crazy silly things.

[rbarton]

[Replying to post 593 by OnceConvinced]

To all atheists or self proclaimed agnostics this may concern, quoting Pope John Paul II "Your questions would only be legitimate, if man, with his created intellect and within the limits of his own subjectivity, could overcome the entire distance that separates creation from the Creator, the contingent and not necessary being from the Necessary Being."
p. 38 from ' Crossing the threshold of hope'

[Hatuey]

[Replying to post 594 by rbarton]

And actually the opposite is true. Since atheist don't believe in a creator, or that they were created, or that that there is a creation, then atheist have to explain no such relationship. Why would Atheists need to explain a dynamic in which they don't believe. The pope was a wise man to have said something so innately stupid