Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs – including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[acapiz]

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

There's an easy one from the OP, one would imagine.

Does God intercede more in a human life than he/it does in a mouse's life? If so, why can I not see it?

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

There are no answers a fundamentalist/literalist can give that also supports/reinforces their faith-based belief. Answering these questions is self-defeating, and instead of being properly illuminating (and inspiring a new convert), the answers even look ridiculous to the fundamentalist/literalists.

Some questions are the 'wrong questions' to ask, because they are built upon false premises. You see those kind of 'wrong questions' asked ad nauseum in debates about evolution versus creationism.

Instead of the OP's questions being based upon false premises, they are based upon blasphemy and disrespect. To even ask 'was Jesus a real person?' is considered by some theists to be the heights of blasphemy. Asking for *proof* the Christian Bible was authored directly by their god is also blasphemous. Not only that, it is a question that will lead the faithful toward faith-crushing lines of thought.

It seems to me as though these questions can't be answered in any genuine way by fundamentalists/literalists. I see Elijah John, our resident Deist is quite comfortable giving a realistic and reasoned set of answers. His faith is based on something less vulnerable, perhaps. I especially agree with the last few sentences where he argues for the relative value of myth, legend and story.

[acapiz]

Church attendance

The 2014 British Social Attitudes Survey found that 58.4% of the population never attend religious services while only 13.1% of people report going to a religious service once a week or more. Of the 16% of people who define as belonging to the Church of England, 51.9% never attend services and in fact only 10.7% of people who identify with the Church of England report attending church at least weekly. More generally, the 2014 BSA Survey discovered that 58.3% of people who were brought up in a religion never attend services, and only 12.8% do so on a weekly basis.

https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/relig ... tatistics/

This is not an attack on religion, this is just a small example of aimless apathy. We can blame the clergy leadership, we can blame the people , we can blame affluence, we can blame whatever. The reality is that the whole thing lacks any momentum or direction. Most of these people will log on to Facebook tomorrow. Religion appears to be real only when it is causing trouble, IMHO, ie Syria,Libya, etc, etc, etc.

[Hamsaka]

In 13 years of internet debating, I've never yet seen an atheist or nonchristian give a plausible answer to the question- "What would have been the Bible writers MOTIVE for making it all up?"
Instead they simply chant the mantra below over and over again (yawn)..

[snipped]

I'm pretty sure this has been answered, but the answers might have blended in with the background. I'll give it a try.

I do not believe the preponderance of the Bible writers were making ANYTHING up. I don't believe they were lying or pulling a fast one, on the whole. They were merely committing the important sacred and religious stories to 'paper' (papyrus). The Bible writers were born and raised in a pre-scientific, pre-rational period of human history, where we pretty much didn't know what in the heck was going on around us. The Bible writers, as far as they were concerned, were writing the 'truth' of their beliefs as they knew them, to the best of their understanding.

There is evidence produced by many scholars that later 'editing' in the form of additional texts are found in the scriptures. The last chapter of Mark, the woman at the well, and a few others have been reasonably shown to have been later additions. Are these lies? Well . . . sort of. No doubt they wouldn't have considered these 'clarifying additions' as lies, but as measures to improve understanding and obedience.

They did not 'make it up' and had no motives to do so, apart from later 'additions' which of themselves were intended to 'clarify' certain items of doctrine and dogma.

For those who say 'It's all made up!' I disagree and find it completely ridiculous to assert it, more of an insult than anything. It can be safely ignored and you can put that portion of your 13 years long endeavor to rest at long last

There were NO motives to make it up.

That said, it does not automatically follow that what they wrote is any more TRUE than any other similar set of religious texts, of which there are several. This is not a false dilemma between 'made it all up' and 'the word of God'. That is a false dilemma erected by theists who presuppose the Bible is the literal word of God. The rest of us are not obliged to stay within the 'limits' of this false dilemma, which might be why you believe you've never received an adequate answer to your question in 13 years. Your question is based upon a false premise -- that atheists (in general) claim the Bible is a bunch of lies. Some folks do make that assertion, and their ignorance is not relevant, so neither should your question take their ignorance seriously

Do I get a prize for answering this question so exhaustively ? C'mon, gimme an MPG --OR-- a serious, thoughtful refutation of your own, no illustrations necessary, just your own reasoned thoughts.

[Paprika]

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

There's an easy one from the OP, one would imagine.

Does God intercede more in a human life than he/it does in a mouse's life? If so, why can I not see it?

The OP having ruled out hearsay, so being left with you as observer, one explanation that comes to mind is that you're not observant enough. Or that you see, but you don't reason as to the causes of the events.

How would I (or anyone here) know why you can't see it (or so you claim); I don't even know you in real life.

But I'm not sure we should even admit into the discussion that you 'don't see it'; that's 'hearsay' after all, falling under the 'claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation'.

[acapiz]

I want a straight answer please, Paprika.

Does God intercede more in a human life than he/it does in a mouse's life?

A simple 'Yes', would be an affirmation without a reasoned explanation, kinda like throwing a dart at a bunch of balloons.

[Paprika]

I want a straight answer please, Paprika.

Does God intercede more in a human life than he/it does in a mouse's life?

As He feeds the sparrow and presumably the mouse, I don't know (I'm taking 'more' to be a comparative of quantity of interventions). Who can say?

A simple 'Yes', would be an affirmation without a reasoned explanation, kinda like throwing a dart at a bunch of balloons.

You asked a second question: "If so, why can I not see it?"

So I answered it by offering some reasonable suggestions. You're welcome.

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Jesus was anything more than human? None

The impression he left on humanity(the world), goes well beyond that of any natural human in history.

Humans possess a soul? None

Do you contend that you do not have a life force that is not of the physical ? The little voice inside your head, your inner energy that drives you to persevere ? We all have an aura, that can change with our mood. This life force inside you , that drives you , the inner voice , this is your soul. Your inner self that you are more aware of than any other. This life force , could be fulfilled , or lacking , this life force surely should be able to extend beyond the physical, as it is not physical, you can not touch your inner self .

An afterlife exists? None

Should this be proven the whole point of Christianity would become moot.

[acapiz]

acapiz : I want a straight answer please, Paprika.

Does God intercede more in a human life than he/it does in a mouse's life?

Paprika reply: I don't know (I'm taking 'more' to be a comparative of quantity of interventions). Who can say?

Now, that is what I regard as a 'straight answer', ie I don't know, Who can say.

Stick with straight answers and you will be fine, Paprika.

Nobody has the foggiest clue about this God thing, apparently. That's scary!

[Dropship]

(snip) Do I get a prize for answering this question so exhaustively ? C'mon, gimme an MPG --OR-- a serious, thoughtful refutation of your own, no illustrations necessary, just your own reasoned thoughts.

What's an MPG, a new assault rifle?
Anyway thanks for your mixed bag of guesses and hunches; no offence but that's all they are..