Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs " including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 95 by Faithful One]

What religion do you think are the ones who go into the deepest darkest jungles are , to bring ones antibiotics , and needs to keep them healthy and a live .

How many atheists are traipsing through the jungle to do this ? Not many. There are many Christian aid groups in the ME, many have lost their lives . How many " atheist aid groups " are in the ME ? I'm guessing zero. These missionaries and aid groups most of the time can not even proselytize, without risking jail or death . They go right into the jaws of danger to help , knowing they can nit spread the word . You will find no other religion as prevalent as Christians as far as helping the needy.

The fortitude of Christianity saves millions of lives yearly. Using the word weak and Christianity, is surely an oxymoron.

They seem to have it locked up in the most dangerous parts of the world . Show me any other religion or secular group that even comes close to helping the world .

Simply type 'secular humanitarian organizations' in your search bar, there are too many to even link to. They check all the boxes, including the jaws of danger (Doctors Without Borders, especially).

I can't help it, that takes the cake. You so easily could have checked your facts before you wrote that.

[Faithful One]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 245#736245]Replying to post 101 by Hamsaka[/

Simply type 'secular humanitarian organizations' in your search bar, there are too many to even link to. They check all the boxes, including the jaws of danger (Doctors Without Borders, especially).

I can't help it, that takes the cake. You so easily could have checked your facts before you wrote that.

O.k , show me just one or two who are with the people in the ME , actually with the people in the towns , please show me this secular organization , that has no Christian ties to it. Doctors without borders was started by a Christian organization.

I am talking the ones who are on the trenches , not secular fund raising groups , be real. This is about strength and fortitude , not soliciting for donations. So please show me one secular aid group that is ground zero , in the deepest darkest jungles, or in towns in the ME actually helping .

I would be willing to bet most of the doctors in the MSF are Christian. My point is that it is mainly Christians you will find helping in the most dangerous parts of the world. I highly doubt there is an atheist in the bunch , of doctors without borders.

Who do you think recruited the doctors for doctors without borders ? Let me tell you again , , it was a Christian organization , their method is to interact independent of religion , or politics , or any other agenda , this was started by a Christian Organization, the most helpful in the world at that .

Christians have a lock on volunteering to help others on the most dangerous parts of the world . I have also shown you a quote from one of them , that states faith is what keeps them strong , should Zyxx have his way , there would be no need for faith , a point I have already made to you. The residuals of faith I mentioned fall right in line with the self sacrifice that we are speaking of here , that Christians are most prevalent at. This is not even arguable really.

[Clownboat]

[[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 245#736245]Replying to post 101 by Hamsaka[/

Simply type 'secular humanitarian organizations' in your search bar, there are too many to even link to. They check all the boxes, including the jaws of danger (Doctors Without Borders, especially).

I can't help it, that takes the cake. You so easily could have checked your facts before you wrote that.

O.k , show me just one or two who are with the people in the ME , actually with the people in the towns , please show me this secular organization , that has no Christian ties to it.

I am talking the ones who are on the trenches , not secular fund raising groups , be real. This is about strength and fortitude , not soliciting for donations. So,please show me one secular aid group that is ground zero , in the deepest darkest jungles, or in towns in the ME actually helping .

I would be willing to bet most of the doctors in the MSF are Christian. My long is that it is mainly Christians you will find helping in the ,it's dangerous parts of the world. I highly doubt there is an atheist in the bunch , of doctors without borders.

What point are you trying to make? We should all know by now that Christians believe that there is a god, that this god has a purpose for them and that this god will reward them in the afterlife if they are faithful to his plan.

If a person is truly made to believe such a thing, I can see how that would provide motivation to be an example or evangelize for said god (I was a missionary and street evangelized myself). Hard to forget about that pie in the sky.

To use your logic...
More Muslims than Christians are willing to blow themselves up for their god. Therefore Christianity if false and Allah is the one true god.

You might as well be arguing that since the Hassan II Mosque is the tallest religious building in the world,.......

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 101 by Hamsaka]




http://www.christianity.com/church/chur ... 30533.html

Swiss-born Henry Dunant needed water rights for a business venture in French-controlled Algeria. The person who could get him those rights was Napoleon III. The only problem was, Napoleon III was on the battlefield in Italy. Dunant did not let that deter him, but set out for Napoleon's headquarters at Solferino in Northern Italy. Thanks to that bold venture, this Christian-influenced businessman became the first person ever to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
He arrived in Solferino in time to witness one of the bloodiest battles of the 19th century. About 40,000 men died in the fighting on June 24, 1859, and another 40,000 perished afterwards because of inadequate medical care.
Henri Dunant had been reared in active Christian faith. His father was involved in social work and Dunant himself had labored for the Swiss arm of the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA). He was a man of action. Appalled by the suffering he witnessed at Solferino, he immediately organized the local peasants to gather the wounded and care for them in homes and churches. Had he not done so, even more may have died. He persuaded Napoleon III to issue an order freeing doctors and surgeons attached to the Austrian armies. But more was needed.
Dunant saw that modern weapons would kill increasing numbers of men. Something had to be done. He wrote a book titled A Memory of Solferino. In it he called all nations to set up commissions to deal with war casualties. Everyone who could should be trained to care for the wounded. His idea sparked interest. In 1863 a committee of five, including Dunant, met in Geneva to see if his plan could be implemented. It called for a conference. This was also held in Geneva. On this day, October 29, 1863, the conferees founded the International Red Cross (not yet called by that name). The following year, the concerned committee drew up the Geneva Convention.

So we have the YMCA mentioned here also. The Salvation Army , the Red Cross , what other religion even comes close to helping at the street level , and ground zero of terrorist filled areas and malaria filled jungles , even when they cannot spread the word !!

This shows a true selfless act , that their faith gives them the ability to overcome the obstacles in their way. They are fearless in the face of evil and disease.

My point is made.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 104 by Faithful One]

FO, your point is without merit. Even in the unlikely situation where there is no secular humanist charity, there is nothing preventing anyone from starting one. Christians DO NOT have a monopoly on charity. There are Hindu ones for example, or Muslim charities.

Heck, just look on this page
https://www.guidestar.org/nonprofit-dir ... ndu/1.aspx
Look to the left. It lists 80,000+ Christian charities, yes, I'll give you that, but that cannot be explained by saying "Oh, Christianity gives people morals" or something along those lines.

[KenRU]

What religion do you think are the ones who go into the deepest darkest jungles are , to bring ones antibiotics , and needs to keep them healthy and a live .

Let's take off the rose-colored glasses for a moment ok? I doubt anyone would deny the good that these organizations do, but let's also identify the massive string that is attached to said charity- preaching that condoms are worse than aids.

In an aids riven country, teaching against the use of contraception is tantamount to stupidity as virtually every statistic shows abstinence programs fail miserably.

Any secular organization doing charitable works does so without said strings.

-all the best

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 103 by Clownboat]

What point are you trying to make?

Well , if you go back through my post on this thread , you can see the point in more detail , but the point I am making is that the search for proof , or concentrating on whether ones actually lived in a whale , fit example , takes way from the message of faith . Christians do not pick up the bible for proof , they pick it up to strengthen their faith, then one characterized this premise of saying, that these miracles that Christians say can not be proved , makes them weak, for saying it.

Quite the opposite is true , as I have shown here with example and quotes and source .

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 103 by Clownboat]

What point are you trying to make?

Well , if you go back through my post on this thread , you can see the point in more detail , but the point I am making is that the search for proof , or concentrating on whether ones actually lived in a whale , fit example , takes way from the message of faith . Christians do not pick up the bible for proof , they pick it up to strengthen their faith, then one characterized this premise of saying, that these miracles that Christians say can not be proved , makes them weak, for saying it.

Quite the opposite is true , as I have shown here with example and quotes and source .

Can you provide me that post or a quote please where someone said that a Christian is "weak" for saying "it"? What exactly was said? I haven't been following every post here.
Anyway, no-one here disputes the good that all these Christian charities are doing. If they're going into war-zones to help POWs or refugees...great! Bravo! But as I said earlier, that does not mean that the only possible reason they are doing so (as you imply) is because of their Christianity.

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 106 by KenRU]

Let's take off the rose-colored glasses for a moment ok? I doubt anyone would deny the good that these organizations do, but let's also identify the massive string that is attached to said charity- preaching that condoms are worse than aids.

In an aids riven country, teaching against the use of contraception is tantamount to stupidity as virtually every statistic shows abstinence programs fail miserably.

Any secular organization doing charitable works does so without said strings.

What you are talking about are Catholics in Africa mainly . This ideology , or train of thought has been changed , a bit too late , but no longer are the villagers told they would go to hell for using contraceptives . Not only is the aids the problem , so is over population , so your point is valid. The Catholic Church has since stopped this type of proselytizing , they have evolved . I have written on this before and share your view , which is how I know they have stopped this ignorance .

I state , that it is a bit too late.

Note that in my posts, that I state they still go even without being able to proselytize . The MSF (doctors without borders ) must remain secular and neutral , these doctors are recruited by a foundation that grew and was started from the Christian faith and a willingness to help selflessly , those who can not help themselves.

The problem is that I know of no secular group , that does not have ties to a Christian organization doing this work , at this level. The Christians actually pulled back the reins on themselves in the ME and Africa.

[Zzyzx]

.

A question if I may. What is considered to be verifiable evidence?

Verify in general means "to establish the truth, accuracy, or reality".

If someone claims that during WWII the Allies invaded Normandy, France on June 6, 1944 we can investigate the truth, accuracy and reality of that claim by consulting multiple disconnected sources worldwide. If we find a "convergence of evidence" to support that contention we consider it verified beyond rational / reasonable doubt.

I mention this because I am presently reading a book that presents German soldiers' accounts of what happened on that fateful day. We can also consult official records from governments of involved nations, news accounts from around the world, personal eyewitness accounts by participants, etc. We can also examine remaining physical evidence of fortifications that were destroyed, memorials to the thousands who perished, etc.

Of course few events of the past are as well verified / documented / recorded as the D Day invasion. However, we can examine whatever evidence is available to support any historical claim.

If there is NO supporting evidence it is reasonable to conclude that the event may or may not have happened as described and thus is unverified and questionable (at best). If the account claimed event contains elements that contradict themselves or conflict with what we know occurs in the real world, that is indication that the account is very questionable.

For the claimed events mentioned in the OP there is NO supporting verifiable evidence. No contemporary person, historian, chronicler left records of miraculous events. All that exists are the gospel stories that make incredible claims. They cannot be shown to be truthful, accurate accounts of what actually happened.