A question for christians

[thenormalyears]

You believe in a God that is all knowing, he knows the past, present and the future, correct?

[Goat]

[...] Don't you think that someone would record the eclipse (like the sun worshipping cultures on the other side of the planet who record every other solar event but completely missed this one)

The fact is that the visibility of solar eclipses is somewhat local. I personally do not know enough about astronomy and the Jewish calendar. Is it possible to have a solar eclipse at the time of the passover?

Yes it is. However, during that time period, the only eclipse happened in 29 C.E., and it was not during passover. It was during november

[FiredUp4jesus]

[...] Don't you think that someone would record the eclipse (like the sun worshipping cultures on the other side of the planet who record every other solar event but completely missed this one)

The fact is that the visibility of solar eclipses is somewhat local. I personally do not know enough about astronomy and the Jewish calendar. Is it possible to have a solar eclipse at the time of the passover?

Yes it is. However, during that time period, the only eclipse happened in 29 C.E., and it was not during passover. It was during november

I read about his in "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobile (I think I spelled that right).

Thallus Circa AD 52, eclipse of the sun. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. His writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.


"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."

Apparently it was not an eclipse. And it was accompanied by an earthquake as the Gospel describes. Interesting.

[Goat]

[...] Don't you think that someone would record the eclipse (like the sun worshipping cultures on the other side of the planet who record every other solar event but completely missed this one)

The fact is that the visibility of solar eclipses is somewhat local. I personally do not know enough about astronomy and the Jewish calendar. Is it possible to have a solar eclipse at the time of the passover?

Yes it is. However, during that time period, the only eclipse happened in 29 C.E., and it was not during passover. It was during november

I read about his in "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobile (I think I spelled that right).

Thallus Circa AD 52, eclipse of the sun. Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. His writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus who wrote about AD 221 mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.


"On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."

Apparently it was not an eclipse. And it was accompanied by an earthquake as the Gospel describes. Interesting.

There is a problem with Thallus. First of all, we don't have any of thallus's words itself. We have the interpretation of Justin Martyr, who was writting in the mid 2nd century. Now, we have no other indication there was a 'darkness' and an earthquake from a secular source.. we just have the gospels, and the hopeful interpreation of someone who was writing 100 years after the fact, and misinterpreting Thallus. Thallus was most likely refering to the eclipse that would have happened in Nov of 29. This was before the ministry of John the Baptist (who Jospehus had killed in 36 C.E)

In addition, an ecplise would have lasted about 30 to 40 minutes, while the 'darkness' in the gospels lasted 3 hours.

The most charitable way to talk about Justin Martyrs discussion about Thallus is that he was mistaken.

[FiredUp4jesus]

There is a problem with Thallus. First of all, we don't have any of thallus's words itself. We have the interpretation of Justin Martyr, who was writting in the mid 2nd century. Now, we have no other indication there was a 'darkness' and an earthquake from a secular source.. we just have the gospels, and the hopeful interpreation of someone who was writing 100 years after the fact, and misinterpreting Thallus. Thallus was most likely refering to the eclipse that would have happened in Nov of 29. This was before the ministry of John the Baptist (who Jospehus had killed in 36 C.E)

In addition, an ecplise would have lasted about 30 to 40 minutes, while the 'darkness' in the gospels lasted 3 hours.

The most charitable way to talk about Justin Martyrs discussion about Thallus is that he was mistaken.

There is so little remaining from this period in history why do you want to throw out everything that isn't a primary source. The fact is we an atrifact with a quote attributed to Thallus. The only reason you have a "problem" with it is that you don't like what it says. I seriously doubt that you hold all works of antiquity to the same standard.

[Goat]

There is a problem with Thallus. First of all, we don't have any of thallus's words itself. We have the interpretation of Justin Martyr, who was writting in the mid 2nd century. Now, we have no other indication there was a 'darkness' and an earthquake from a secular source.. we just have the gospels, and the hopeful interpreation of someone who was writing 100 years after the fact, and misinterpreting Thallus. Thallus was most likely refering to the eclipse that would have happened in Nov of 29. This was before the ministry of John the Baptist (who Jospehus had killed in 36 C.E)

In addition, an ecplise would have lasted about 30 to 40 minutes, while the 'darkness' in the gospels lasted 3 hours.

The most charitable way to talk about Justin Martyrs discussion about Thallus is that he was mistaken.

There is so little remaining from this period in history why do you want to throw out everything that isn't a primary source. The fact is we an atrifact with a quote attributed to Thallus. The only reason you have a "problem" with it is that you don't like what it says. I seriously doubt that you hold all works of antiquity to the same standard.

It not that it is even a primary source. It is plainly an error. We have an eclipse that is of purely natural source, in november of 29. This does not fit the gospels at all when it comes to Jesus's cruxifiction. An astronomer would be interested in that one.

Why invoke the supernatural when there is perfectly natural explainations?

[Cathar1950]

I think we have a few threads going about Thallus.
But considering we have none of his works and only the hearsay of some one many years later and it occurring at the wrong time I think we can doubt and still not look silly.

[FiredUp4jesus]

I think we have a few threads going about Thallus.
But considering we have none of his works and only the hearsay of some one many years later and it occurring at the wrong time I think we can doubt and still not look silly.

Your capacity for doubt is not in question. I would still like to know if you hold ALL works of antiquity to the same standard?

[Cathar1950]

Your capacity for doubt is not in question. I would still like to know if you hold ALL works of antiquity to the same standard?

Why would I not?
Do you believe Augustus was savior and the Son of God?
Do you believe Bar Kokhba was the Messiah?
Do you think Alexander was the ofspring of a god?
Do you believe the Pharoh was the judge of all the earth and the son of Ra?
It is not like someone sat all the disciples down and made then write what they saw and heard, they were compiled later and by unknown authors from varying traditions at different times and collected later. They are still arguing about them.

[FiredUp4jesus]

Your capacity for doubt is not in question. I would still like to know if you hold ALL works of antiquity to the same standard?

Why would I not?
Do you believe Augustus was savior and the Son of God?
Do you believe Bar Kokhba was the Messiah?
Do you think Alexander was the offspring of a god?
Do you believe the Pharaoh was the judge of all the earth and the son of Ra?

Are you claiming that I should because the quality and quantity of evidence for the above assertions is equal to that of the Bible? That would be a very foolish suggestion on your part.

[Cephus]

Are you claiming that I should because the quality and quantity of evidence for the above assertions is equal to that of the Bible? That would be a very foolish suggestion on your part.

To expect you to act in a consistent manner? Yes, apparently very foolish. Instead, what you've done is pick a mythology that you happen to like and demand that it, without a shred of evidence, must be true while all the others, that you don't happen to like, must be false.

And this is rational?