Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs " including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[enviousintheeverafter]

[Replying to post 196 by Faithful One]

A couple of interesting studies to consider-

-Religion Doesn't Make People More Moral

RE the 2014 study that concluded "Religious and nonreligious participants did not differ in the likelihood or quality of committed moral and immoral acts" (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25214626)

-Atheists More Motivated by Compassion than the Faithful

This study concludes that "the prosociality of less religious individuals is driven to a greater extent by levels of compassion than is the prosociality of the more religious"- the non-religious are more likely to be motivated by compassionate than the faithful, who are often driven by doctrine, fear of repercussions (hell) or desire of reward (heaven), etc.(http://media.wix.com/ugd/2f07d4_2f50d21 ... 89c67c.pdf)

So clearly the related notions that Christians are more compassionate, or likely to be motivated by compassion, or are more moral in general, are not so factually credible as (religious) people like to assume. If anything, the situation may be the exact opposite- Christians or the religious may be less compassionate, or motivated by compassion, than their impious counterparts.

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 200 by Zzyzx]

If as much can be accomplished without religion (or "faith") what is the reason to be religious (in this regard)?

There would be no reason for servitude without their faith. Their would be no need for mission to grow their faith.

Should a non Christian and a Christian get stranded , I would put odds on the one with the bible to make it through a bit better, as the non Christians faith would stay static , while the faith of the Christian would show increase , through the word of his/her bible.

The other would see this strength and probably follow suit, even if doubtful .

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 201 by enviousintheeverafter]

So clearly the related notions that Christians are more compassionate, or likely to be motivated by compassion, or are more moral in general, are not so factually credible as (religious) people like to assume. If anything, the situation may be the exact opposite- Christians or the religious may be less compassionate, or motivated by compassion, than their impious counterparts[/quote

Did you miss this ?

These volunteers are very dedicated with high moral standards, the same would not apply. Christians are sinners just the same, none escape sin , that is unrealistic to think your Christianity makes you more moral than the other, as far as judging them by what they do , compared to what you do, as far as your transgressions go.. This is left to God in this religion.

I did not state this notion , we are in agreement here, but missionaries are of a higher standard of morals , but they do not put themselves above the people they serve , this would make the point of servitude moot. Compassion is inherent , having it and showing it are two different things.

So it is far from the exact opposite.

[tam]

[Replying to post 170 by tam]

If you conduct religious rituals, you are practicing religion. I don't see how that can be seen any other way.

Saying grace before meals,
Attending church every Sunday morning
Baptism
Communion
Prayer meetings
Raising you hands to god in worship
Closing your eyes when praying
Standing together in a congregation and singing
Holding hands during worship or prayer
Altar calls
The laying on of hands
Annointing with oil
Chanting the lord's prayer
Quiet times
Speaking in tongues
Holy laughter
Being slain in the spirit
Spiritual warfare
Praying the sinner's prayer

And that's just in protestant churches!

These are all religious rituals conducted regularly by Christians. Anyone who claims to be doing these things is clearly religious and many Christians do most of these things on a regular basis. Often religiously.

I don't even know what half of those things are. I am not a member of a protestant church. Or a catholic church. Or an anglican church. Or a non-denominational church. Or a ... well, fill in the blank with anything you like. I am in none of them. I could not be in any of them, and also be listening to Christ at the same time, because He is calling His people OUT (of her/them).

I do what my Lord directs me to do. Not as a ritual. Not because some men say to do it. Not because everyone around me is doing it. Not because whatever religion I am part of says to do it. Not because of a rule, arbitrary or not.

Just if Christ tells me that I should do it. Religion can't just pirate something that Christ said to do... and then deem that anyone who obeys Christ must be religious.


Of your list, the only thing on there that He said we are to keep doing is number 4.

I'm going to ask a couple of questions about a couple things on your list though if you don't mind:

How can speaking in tongues be a ritual? That, if it is for real, is a gift of the spirit. It is not something that one chooses on their own to just "up and do".

How does one attend church if one IS the church? The Church is the Body of Christ. The Church is made up of people. If one is a member of the Body of Christ, then one is the Church. If one is the church, then one neither goes TO church, nor does one ever LEAVE church... unless one leaves Christ.

And just a personal curiosity :

What in the world is holy laughter and what in the world about it makes it a ritual?



Peace to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[enviousintheeverafter]

There would be no reason for servitude without their faith.

This comment seems awfully revealing, and tends to reinforce the conclusion of the above mentioned study; that the religious person wouldn't see a reason to act out of compassion/for the good of others without a religious mandate telling them they should. The non-religious person would generally not need such a (questionable) reason- helping others would be reason enough.

[enviousintheeverafter]

[Replying to post 203 by Faithful One]

What happened here? Your reply doesn't contain anything other than a quote from my post (an attempted quote at least- looks like the quote tags got mangled).

[enviousintheeverafter]

Did you miss this ?

I don't know, there's no post number or anything on the quote so I have no idea what you're referring to here.

I did not state this notion , we are in agreement here, but missionaries are of a higher standard of morals , but they do not put themselves above the people they serve , this would make the point of servitude moot. Compassion is inherent , having it and showing it are two different things.

So it is far from the exact opposite.

Well, actually it does appear to be the exact opposite of your previous claim about Christianity being more compassionate than your average Joe and similar comments on this thread. At least according to that study, Christians are less compassionate or motivated by compassion than their non-religious counterparts, not more.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 200 by Zzyzx]

If as much can be accomplished without religion (or "faith") what is the reason to be religious (in this regard)?

There would be no reason for servitude without their faith. Their would be no need for mission to grow their faith.

Should a non Christian and a Christian get stranded , I would put odds on the one with the bible to make it through a bit better, as the non Christians faith would stay static , while the faith of the Christian would show increase , through the word of his/her bible.

The other would see this strength and probably follow suit, even if doubtful .

So two people get stranded...on a tropical island you mean? And for some reason you just state that the Christian would make it through "a bit better". Why? You don't really provide a reason. It is entirely possible and plausible that that Christian could be of the persuasion that he's on that island for a godly reason, and thus, he won't do anything to help himself.
This is what annoys me and the others. These constant assertions that someone with a bible, or someone with faith, is better, of a higher character, or in some weird fashion superior to other people...and not once do you provide evidence. You just assert it over and over again.l

[Zzyzx]

.

If as much can be accomplished without religion (or "faith") what is the reason to be religious (in this regard)?

Should a non Christian and a Christian get stranded , I would put odds on the one with the bible to make it through a bit better, as the non Christians faith would stay static , while the faith of the Christian would show increase , through the word of his/her bible.

The other would see this strength and probably follow suit, even if doubtful .

Having experienced difficult situations which involved others who were Christian and Non-Christian, I saw no difference in survivability or other potential.

"Faith" is not required to do what is necessary. Knowledge, experience, attitude are far more important. Prayer is useless other than perhaps make any who pray feel better or feel as though they are doing something useful (perhaps while others do what is necessary).

A Boy Scout Manual would be FAR more useful than a bible (or military or other survival manual).

This is what annoys me and the others. These constant assertions that someone with a bible, or someone with faith, is better, of a higher character, or in some weird fashion superior to other people...and not once do you provide evidence. You just assert it over and over again.l

Exactly. That common delusion of superiority makes many capable and determined enemies for Christendom. Of course no evidence is presented " only opinions and conjecture " because there is no evidence of the imagined superiority. It is all in the minds of those who make such claims or convey such attitudes.

[Dropship]

This is what annoys me and the others. These constant assertions that someone with a bible, or someone with faith, is better, of a higher character, or in some weird fashion superior to other people..l

They can't get under Jesus's radar..
He said- "Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)