The Flood Myth - The Greatest Evil

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:42 am

Assuming the myth of the flood as recorded in Genesis is accurate history, it is the greatest single evil act recorded in the history of man. It also is evidence the alleged god who perpetrated this evil makes mistakes, contradicts himself, and is capricious.
Consider that shortly after pronouncing all of his creation "good" he repents and calls the whole thing evil and decides to destroy all of it; man and all the other animals [except, presumably, marine life]. Then he changes his mind again and decides He'll just wipe out everything and everyone except a single family to represent each species.

Why he saved the death stalker scorpion, mosquitoes, the box jellyfish, the black widow spider, the poison dart frog, blue ring octopus, and Clostridium Botulinum is beyond me, except that it puts the lie to the idea he was trying to get rid of evil.

It's obvious the story of the flood is pure mythology, but even then, what is its purpose? To show man how evil and corrupt he'd become? The God of this myth certainly does not set a good example.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:25 pm

Buy Oz Moses wrote:
...

This view states that God is blameless, but it is unable to answer how it knows this. It's taken on faith. We cannot debate evil with this version as the believers cannot answer their view on the logistics of evil's origins, thus taking it outside the boundaries of logical debate for this subject.

...

Quite unfair,
I know this by revelation from GOD, just as all Christian doctrine is known. I answer the logistics of evil's origins and write about it all the time. I even write it out in point form for those who like it that way.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:42 pm

Danmark wrote:
...
I agree, this is the only way out of the 'God did not create evil' claim. This of course necessitates the willingness to accept that God is not all powerful and does not know the future. This factor is completely at odds with evangelical Christianity in general and Calvinism in particular.

...

In no way does the concept of GOD's omnipotence necessitate that GOD created evil when HIS goal of marriage with HIS creation necessitated HIS giving us free will with the ability to choose to become holy or demonic.

And the only future HE did not know was the un-decreed results of our free will decisions when we ourselves self created our eternal characters as holy or reprobate.

This theology is indeed at odds with orthodox Christianity and it places the charge of blasphemy upon Calvinism, Arminianism and Catholicism. All these rest upon the blasphemy that GOD knew who would end in hell by HIS foreknowledge but created them anyway though the books of double-think theo-babble written to explain how this does not contradict HIS loving holiness are myriad between all of them. They all also accept without question the blasphemy that GOD creates sinners by creating people as sinners by having them born as human into Adam's sin.

If my distinction is to stand alone against these blasphemies, so be it.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:24 pm

Danmark wrote:
...

What has never made the least bit of sense to me is that God remains all powerful, yet he allows Satan to deceive and torture without God himself being tainted in the least. It's almost like Adolf Eichmann's defense, "I was just following orders." Pilate washing his hands and claiming to be powerless is probably a closer example.

That some Church's might (which ones? is begging to be asked) define Satan's power this way does not mean it is accepted Christian doctrine. More people believe that all Satan's power and the suffering he causes is contained by GOD, and he is restrained from doing his worst so as to fit within GOD's measure of righteous judgement upon the reprobate and the righteous punishment by the discipline of suffering for HIS sinful elect.

The story of Job is clearly a literary invention, a device used to make important points. The idea that the god character is somehow absolved from evil because he allows Job to be tortured, but not killed is preposterous.
But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face. And the Lord said to Satan, Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.

The fact that GOD initiated this event with Satan is proof to me that HE was in cahoots with Job to expose Satan as so evil that all he needed was to be allowed to attack and he willingly monsters the most holy old man on earth! Job and GOD worked together to expose the true depths of Satanism and they sucked him in good.

Thus this story has been a main teaching from earliest times to HIS sinful elect, (that is, those who accepted HIS deity but rebelled against HIS plan of damnation for the reprobate, idolizing them above HIM), as one of the most eye opening lessons about the true nature of the evil of the reprobate, part of the proof that the evil of the reprobate must be banished from all of created reality for ever. Job did a good and extremely hard job for us against Satan and I will shake his hand for it when we meet.

Buy Oz Moses · Post by **Buy Oz Moses** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:00 pm

[quote="ttruscott"]
[quote="Buy Oz Moses"]

[row color=black][color=chartreuse] "This view states that God is blameless, but[i] it is unable to answer how it knows this[/i]. It's taken on faith. We cannot debate evil with this version as [i]the believers cannot answer their view on the logistics of evil's origins,[/i] thus taking it outside the boundaries of logical debate for this subject." ~ Buy Oz Moses "Quite unfair, I know this by revelation from GOD, just as all Christian doctrine is known. I answer the logistics of evil's origins and write about it all the time. I even write it out in point form for those who like it that way." ~ ttruscott [/color] [color=gainsboro] But what if, hypothetically of course, you were insane? Completely insane. Like balls to the wall insane. At what point do we take your personal revelations to be possibly entirely or partially fabricated by your own psychosis? How would we know? How would [i]you [/i]know? I can appreciate your personal revelation, and admire...probably envy your luck to have something that must make you feel (would make me feel) special or a part of something fantastic, that I'll probably never know the joys of... But when it comes to debate, a personal revelation falls a bit short of the mark from being considerable as a relatable source or demonstrable evidence to the point at hand. You have to admit we can't use something only you have access to. But if I were to humor you. Because honestly I do fancy the idea in general, it's unique take and all...what revelation have you had about the origins of evil? More specifically it's creator. I remember asking about whether God was surrounded by evil like we are surrounded by oxygen, it is something we didn't create, but it's something we can manipulate. And if he did not will it into existence, what fundament laws(such as planets existing because of classical and quantum mechanics) created/govern it? Also...Love, or good is duplicative by mortals, and evil is as well. If God is love and/or good, then who is evil? [/color] [color=chartreuse][b] 08:83 [/b] [/color]

Buy Oz Moses · Post by **Buy Oz Moses** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:13 pm

[Replying to post 878 by bluethread]

[row color=black][color=chartreuse]"The first three chapters of Genesis are designed to counter to prevalent serpent mythology of the ancient near east. Therefore, it is not surprising that the symbolism is similar. By the time of the Revelation, the personification of Satan and association of that concept with the Serpent of Genesis was well established, but that was a developed doctrine after the fact, not the original point of the Genesis passage." ~ bluethread [/color][color=gainsboro]Not entirely sure where your view point is headed, but it seems you agree that HaSatan was evolved into the evil father of this world. What is your viewpoint on the flood being demonstrable of God's (proposed) ability to be evil? [/color][color=chartreuse][b]08:84[/b] [/color]

Buy Oz Moses · Post by **Buy Oz Moses** » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:27 pm

[Replying to post 882 by ttruscott]

[row color=black][color=chartreuse]"The fact that GOD initiated this event with Satan is proof to me that HE was in cahoots with Job to expose Satan as so evil that all he needed was to be allowed to attack and he willingly monsters the most holy old man on earth! Job and GOD worked together to expose the true depths of Satanism and they sucked him in good." ~ ttruscott [/color][color=gainsboro]Interesting viewpoint. Would you agree that this act of God to craftily draw HaSatan into revealing his evil nature as "beguiling"? [b]Beguile[/b] [i]verb[/i] To trick or deceive. To attract or interest someone. [/color][color=chartreuse][b]08:85[/b] [/color]

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:58 pm

bluethread wrote:
Danmark wrote: [Replying to post 876 by Buy Oz Moses]

I agree. For Judaism, as I recall, once we leave the first chapters of Genesis, Satan more or less disappears. It's as if its creation myth was adopted, adapted, borrowed from a completely different culture and tradition.
The first three chapters of Genesis are designed to counter to prevalent serpent mythology of the ancient near east.

That is a very strange interpretation of Genesis 3:

Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, Did God actually say, You[a] shall not eat of any tree in the garden? 2 And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die. 4 But the serpent said to the woman, You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
PS, the God character lied. The Serpent character told the truth.
It is nothing short of amazing that people try to build a theology out of this. Apparently part of the strategy is to tell the story exactly the opposite of what it says.

Who is the talking Serpent, who appears to know God very well, if he is not Satan?

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:03 pm

ttruscott wrote:
Danmark wrote:
...
I agree, this is the only way out of the 'God did not create evil' claim. This of course necessitates the willingness to accept that God is not all powerful and does not know the future. This factor is completely at odds with evangelical Christianity in general and Calvinism in particular.

...
In no way does the concept of GOD's omnipotence necessitate that GOD created evil when HIS goal of marriage with HIS creation necessitated HIS giving us free will with the ability to choose to become holy or demonic.

And the only future HE did not know was the un-decreed results of our free will decisions when we ourselves self created our eternal characters as holy or reprobate.

This theology is indeed at odds with orthodox Christianity and it places the charge of blasphemy upon Calvinism, Arminianism and Catholicism. All these rest upon the blasphemy that GOD knew who would end in hell by HIS foreknowledge but created them anyway though the books of double-think theo-babble written to explain how this does not contradict HIS loving holiness are myriad between all of them. They all also accept without question the blasphemy that GOD creates sinners by creating people as sinners by having them born as human into Adam's sin.

If my distinction is to stand alone against these blasphemies, so be it.

And how do you know any of this? Does this theory of yours that contradicts Calvinism and Catholicism have a name? Or is it your own private theory?
Is it based on a story about talking snakes and a god who allows his people to be tortured by Satan? What is your authority to call Calvinism and Catholicism "blasphemy." If you want to call Christianity "blasphemy," so be it.

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:10 pm

ttruscott wrote:
Danmark wrote:
...

What has never made the least bit of sense to me is that God remains all powerful, yet he allows Satan to deceive and torture without God himself being tainted in the least. It's almost like Adolf Eichmann's defense, "I was just following orders." Pilate washing his hands and claiming to be powerless is probably a closer example.
That some Church's might (which ones? is begging to be asked) define Satan's power this way does not mean it is accepted Christian doctrine. More people believe that all Satan's power and the suffering he causes is contained by GOD, and he is restrained from doing his worst so as to fit within GOD's measure of righteous judgement upon the reprobate and the righteous punishment by the discipline of suffering for HIS sinful elect.

The story of Job is clearly a literary invention, a device used to make important points. The idea that the god character is somehow absolved from evil because he allows Job to be tortured, but not killed is preposterous.
But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face. And the Lord said to Satan, Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.
The fact that GOD initiated this event with Satan is proof to me that HE was in cahoots with Job to expose Satan as so evil that all he needed was to be allowed to attack and he willingly monsters the most holy old man on earth! Job and GOD worked together to expose the true depths of Satanism and they sucked him in good.

Job was 'in cahoots' with God? So the entire story is a lie, according to you. The essence of the story is the conflict between God and Job. Job questions God. The denouement is when God answers Job and asks him who he thinks he is to question him. God demands to know Job's authority and the basis for his knowledge.

By simply making up a theory that suggests the opposite of what is written your idea has zero believability. Turning scripture on its head to satisfy your own singular notions is not persuasive.

Buy Oz Moses · Post by **Buy Oz Moses** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:47 pm

[Replying to post 879 by ttruscott]

[row color=black][color=chartreuse] Contrary to your assumptive assertion, the possibility of evil WAS foreseen as shown by the choice of Christ to be the slain lamb before creation. How could HE give us free will to self create ourselves as either holy or eternally evil and not foresee that our choosing evil was possible??? And your take on PCE theology that it means GOD is "not omni-anything," is false and not necessary for "leaving fault with the creation, as we chose it." He can be omniscient even by the pagan Greek wisdom and still the fall would have been totally our fault. The only blasphemy that the Bible definition of HIS all knowing contradicts is that it destroys the blasphemy that HE created some people knowing they would end in hell (either eternally or in annihilation), and has nothing to do with the creation of evil. Neither are omnipotence nor omnipresence contradicted at all. ~ ttruscott [b] [/b] [/color][color=gainsboro] My assumptive assertion that God would have to be omni-nothing is a logical assertion. [b]Omniscient[/b] [i]adjective[/i] knowing everything. synonyms: all-knowing, [b]all-wise[/b], [b]all-seeing[/b] Possible choice 1: [/color]

[col color=lightslategray][b]Choice: [/b][col color=lightslategray][center][b]God[/b][/center][col color=lightslategray] [center][b]Creates Bride[/b][/center][col color=lightslategray] [center][b]Destroys Evil[/b][/center][col color=lightslategray] [center][b]God + Bride[/b][/center][row color=white][b]Result: [/b][col color=white] [center][b]Everything is Good[/b][/center][col color=white] [center][b]Evil is Created[/b][/center][col color=white] [center][b]Some Creations Suffer[/b][/center][col color=white] [center][b]Everything is Good[/b][/center]

[row color=black][color=gainsboro]Possible choice 2: [/color]

[col color=lightslategray][b]Choice: [/b][col color=lightslategray][center][b]God[/b][/center][col color=lightslategray] [center][b]Does Not Create Bride[/b][/center][col color=lightslategray] [center][b]Nothing Destroyed[/b][/center][col color=lightslategray] [center][b]God[/b][/center][row color=white][b]Result: [/b][col color=white] [center][b]Everything is Good[/b][/center][col color=white] [center][b]Evil is Not Created[/b][/center][col color=white] [center][b]Nothing Suffers[/b][/center][col color=white] [center][b]Everything is Good[/b][/center]

[row color=black][color=gainsboro] God feels it is wise to have Evil created and for some to suffer or be destroyed so that everything can be good, rather than having no evil created and none to suffer so that everything can be good. This is the dilemma if God is omniscient [/color]

[col color=lightslategray][center][b]God is Omniscient[/b][/center] [row color=white] [center][b]God Creates Jesus at the beginning[/b][/center][row color=white] [center][b]God Foresaw the Creation of Evil[/b][/center]

[col color=lightslategray][center][b]God is Now Given a Choice[/b][/center] [row color=white] [center][b]Create Man and Allow the Creation of Evil[/b][/center][row color=white] [center][b]Do Not Create Man and Do Not Allow the Creation of Evil[/b][/center]

[row color=black][color=gainsboro] [b]Responsible[/b] [i]adjective[/i] being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it. synonyms: accountable, answerable, to blame, guilty, culpable, blameworthy, at fault, in the wrong "if an error's been made, I'm the one who's responsible" If God is omniscient he is responsible for the creation of Evil. [/color][color=chartreuse][b]08:89[/b] [/color]