Religion vs relationsip (with God)

[Elijah John]

From another thread (replying to Tam):

"I notice in may of your posts you are careful to make the distinction between "religion and faith" I read that as a distinction between "religion and relationship") to God or Christ)

Doesn't religion, (ideally) help one to RELATE to God, and in the case of Christianity to have a relationship with Christ?

I know Roman Catholicism emphasizes relationship with Christ through the Word (liturgy of the Word, readings etc.) and the liturgy of the Eucharist, (the body of Christ). And of course, prayers.

But in the final anyalysis, isn't relationship with God based on prayer, which of course, includes faith that God hears and answers?"

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Question for debate, what (if any) is the difference between religion and relationship (with God/Christ)?


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[bluethread]

From another thread (replying to Tam):

But in the final anyalysis, isn't relationship with God based on prayer, which of course, includes faith that God hears and answers?"

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Question for debate, what (if any) is the difference between religion and relationship (with God/Christ)?

No, relationship with Adonai is based on everything one thinks and does, which is religion. Though one's acceptance is through active faith in Adonai's grace, relationship (hallachah) IS one's religion, not ritual. It (hallachah) does not make one acceptable to Adonai. It indicates whether or not one is acceptable to Adonai.

[Elijah John]

From another thread (replying to Tam):

But in the final anyalysis, isn't relationship with God based on prayer, which of course, includes faith that God hears and answers?"

---------------

Question for debate, what (if any) is the difference between religion and relationship (with God/Christ)?

No, relationship with Adonai is based on everything one thinks and does, which is religion. Though one's acceptance is through active faith in Adonai's grace, relationship (hallachah) IS one's religion, not ritual. It (hallachah) does not make one acceptable to Adonai. It indicates whether or not one is acceptable to Adonai.

I think we agree that religion should be a way of life, all encompassing. If it is only a Sunday, (or Saturday) occurance, it becomes mere ritual.

Faith in YHVH's lovingkindness and Grace, works for me. As the old expression goes, it is not faith or works, not even faith AND works, but it is faith THAT works!

[InHIsHands]

From another thread (replying to Tam):

"I notice in may of your posts you are careful to make the distinction between "religion and faith" I read that as a distinction between "religion and relationship") to God or Christ)

Doesn't religion, (ideally) help one to RELATE to God, and in the case of Christianity to have a relationship with Christ?

I know Roman Catholicism emphasizes relationship with Christ through the Word (liturgy of the Word, readings etc.) and the liturgy of the Eucharist, (the body of Christ). And of course, prayers.

But in the final anyalysis, isn't relationship with God based on prayer, which of course, includes faith that God hears and answers?"

---------------

Question for debate, what (if any) is the difference between religion and relationship (with God/Christ)?


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Inward and outward profession of who we say we belong to before the eyes of both GOD and man...

That is the difference between religion and a relationship with GOD...

[tam]

Peace to you, EJ!

I had thought about starting a thread of my own emphasizing the difference between religion and faith, but perhaps that won't be necessary. I guess we'll see where this thread leads.

Question for debate, what (if any) is the difference between religion and relationship (with God/Christ)?

Starting with religion versus faith.


You have heard the expression (and verse) 'for we walk by faith, and not by sight'?

Well, religion is walking by sight. Everything about it is of the world and seen. The buildings, the rules, the clothing, the doctrines, the holy books (and any accompanying writing/catechisms/magazines/etc, etc), the art and icons, the visible leaders and visible symbols and tools (crosses, rosaries, little shrines, etc, etc). The Bible is a sight tool. Not a faith tool. A sight tool. Something visible.



Faith, however, is based upon what is HEARD, in the spirit, from the Spirit (Christ). Those who walk by faith are LISTENING to the Spirit. They are HEARING, and as long as their faith is not dead, they are also obeying.


Using what is written in the sight tool to help others to see the difference between walking by faith and walking by sight:

Abraham did not have a Bible to read when he heard God tell him to leave his land (or anything else). He did not have a religion to tell him what to do. (In fact, he was being called out of his father's people and religion, due to the practices they had embraced). Abraham HEARD, believed, and obeyed. Abraham walked by faith.

Noah did not read somewhere that he should build the ark. No religion told him to do so. He heard, and obeyed. He heard, put faith in the One he heard, and then proved His faith and his love by obeying.

Who told the prophets what to say? Did they read it, or hear it from the Spirit? They, too, walked by faith.

Then of course there are examples of those who heard from the Spirit (Christ) in the NT as well. They had a relationship with Him. He spoke to them, they heard Him, He was with them. (and still is)


**

As for relationship:


Do all those who claim to have a relationship with Christ and God truly have one, or do they have a "relationship" with their particular 'church/sect/denomination'?


Religion encourages walking by sight (while paying lip service to walking by faith). We who are in Christ are meant to walk by faith (worshiping in spirit and in truth)... but religion (worshiping on this mountain or that mountain) does not teach that this is possible (or good). It would be bad for business, and religion is big business. Plus, the leaders of these religions often do not know the truth to teach it, because they, themselves, do not have faith or a relationship with Christ. They prove that by their fruits (inquisition for example) and by their teachings that are not as Christ taught/teaches.

Blind leading the blind. Which is unfortunate for them, because they are walking by sight.


Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Mr. EJ!!:D

The definition of religion is belief in God. The relationship is where it all happens. A great example is that I am married, but my relationship with my husband is what builds or defines that marriage. I am a Christian, but my relationship with Christ is the driving force on how I carry out my belief in God.

Have a wonderful day!

[ttruscott]

I used to have what I call fist fights with GOD and HE'd beat me up and I'd Hate HIM... it was all very personal and even when I could not accept that HE was, I always knew who to blame when things went against my sinful wishes.

A relationship with GOD is like it is with anyone - you know they are there having supper with you, you talk things over with them, they give advice or encouragement etc it certainly is not one sided.

Religion is not like this but more of a shared experience and thought pattern with other people in a certain place. I don't fit in there very well, sigh, being so strongly heterodox as I am.

[Zzyzx]

.

The definition of religion is belief in God.

PN, that may be a bit narrow a definition of religion -- particularly if "God" is taken to mean the Bible God.

Perhaps a more useful definition of religion might be: "the belief in a god or in a group of gods" and/or "an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

[Peds nurse]

.

The definition of religion is belief in God.

PN, that may be a bit narrow a definition of religion -- particularly if "God" is taken to mean the Bible God.

Mr. Z!!

It's kind of funny how we all look at things so differently, because I thought it was a very broad definition of religion. I was not just referring to the Biblical God either, and actually the definition came from the dictionary.

Perhaps a more useful definition of religion might be: "the belief in a god or in a group of gods" and/or "an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

I'll go with that one as well! Perhaps you could rewrite the dictionary (haha).

Hugs Mr. Z!!!!

[JLB32168]

Question for debate, what (if any) is the difference between religion and relationship (with God/Christ)?

This statement has usually been used by some American Evangelicals to describe the beliefs of Roman Catholics or other confessions that use ritual in their worship. It suggests that those Christians cannot commune with God on a personal level or have any personal, individual revelation from God.