The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)
1. Did this command come from God?
2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?
3. Did Jesus change this law?
4. If so, why?
How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #11The following should help:Justin108 wrote: The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)
1. Did this command come from God?
2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?
3. Did Jesus change this law?
4. If so, why?
Paprika wrote: As to the general 'herp derp why don't you Christians follow Jewish law' (as though that wasn't a central question faced and answered by the earliest Christians two millenia ago), the only saving grace is that many (if not most) Christians today also hold misunderstandings about how early Christianity (as recorded in Scripture) answered precisely this all-important question.
The response to the refugee crisis has been troubling, exposing... just how impoverished our moral and political discourse actually is. For the difficult tasks of patient deliberation and discriminating political wisdom, a cult of sentimental humanitarianism--Neoliberalism's good cop to its bad cop of foreign military interventionism--substitutes the self-congratulatory ease of kneejerk emotional judgments, assuming that the 'right'...is immediately apparent from some instinctive apprehension of the 'good'. -AR
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #12Can you reference your quote please? I'm not familiar with it.JLB32168 wrote:�Therefore the Law [the OT] has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.� I should say that I’m using “imperfect� not in the sense of “defective� but more like incomplete. Christian theology - or more specifically Eastern Orthodox theology - teaches that the OT points to Christ who is the fullness of God’s revelation to man.Justin108 wrote:Excuse me? I have never heard this claim before [that the OT was the imperfect and incomplete revelation of God to man.] Where does Christianity teach that the OT, the supposed word of God himself, is an imperfect and incomplete revelation of God?
Being our tutor, we are no longer bound by the whole of the law since Christ has died and been Resurrected - accomplishing the entire law (cf. "It is finished"), according to Christian theology.
To say something is "incomplete" is to say it lacks something. In other words, something is not there that should be.
The Sabbath law not a "lacking", rather it is something that should not be there at all.
To illustrate the difference-
Something that is incomplete:
X should be there
X is not there
Therefore, something is incomplete
The Sabbath law, however, looks like this:
X (the Sabbath law) should not be there,
X is there
- this does not look like what "incomplete" should look like.
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #13So your answer is "that question has already been answered"...?Paprika wrote:The following should help:Justin108 wrote: The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15)
1. Did this command come from God?
2. If so, why don't Christians follow this command?
3. Did Jesus change this law?
4. If so, why?
Paprika wrote: As to the general 'herp derp why don't you Christians follow Jewish law' (as though that wasn't a central question faced and answered by the earliest Christians two millenia ago), the only saving grace is that many (if not most) Christians today also hold misunderstandings about how early Christianity (as recorded in Scripture) answered precisely this all-important question.
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #14Yes. Whenever non-Christians go 'why don't you Christians follow this or that part of Jewish law' like shellfish or mixed fabrics, it's usually a sign that they don't know much about what they're criticising since the issue has been addressed in part and in whole about two millennia ago (off the top of my head cf. the relevant texts in Mark, Acts, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians and Hebrews).Justin108 wrote:
So your answer is "that question has already been answered"...?
The response to the refugee crisis has been troubling, exposing... just how impoverished our moral and political discourse actually is. For the difficult tasks of patient deliberation and discriminating political wisdom, a cult of sentimental humanitarianism--Neoliberalism's good cop to its bad cop of foreign military interventionism--substitutes the self-congratulatory ease of kneejerk emotional judgments, assuming that the 'right'...is immediately apparent from some instinctive apprehension of the 'good'. -AR
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #15Unless you can actually address the OP directly, please refrain from posting. Thank youPaprika wrote:Yes. Whenever non-Christians go 'why don't you Christians follow this or that part of Jewish law' like shellfish or mixed fabrics, it's usually a sign that they don't know much about what they're criticising since the issue has been addressed in part and in whole about two millennia ago (off the top of my head cf. the relevant texts in Mark, Acts, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians and Hebrews).Justin108 wrote:
So your answer is "that question has already been answered"...?
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #16I love my post addressing the 'herp derp', but I would infinitely prefer not having to post it in reply to yet another silly ignorant attempt at 'Gotcha, Christians!'Justin108 wrote:
Unless you can actually address the OP directly, please refrain from posting. Thank you
And if the questions in the original post still pose a problem, my advice would be to read the Scriptures and learn a little about the basic facts of Christian theology.
The response to the refugee crisis has been troubling, exposing... just how impoverished our moral and political discourse actually is. For the difficult tasks of patient deliberation and discriminating political wisdom, a cult of sentimental humanitarianism--Neoliberalism's good cop to its bad cop of foreign military interventionism--substitutes the self-congratulatory ease of kneejerk emotional judgments, assuming that the 'right'...is immediately apparent from some instinctive apprehension of the 'good'. -AR
-
DanieltheDragon
- Savant
- Posts: 6224
- Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:37 pm
- Location: Charlotte
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #17[Replying to post 16 by Paprika]
You could try and point to specific points in the bible that you believe support your statement. Not everyone has had the opportunity to read every line in the bible. If you purport to know the answer then it wouldn't be hard for you to supply the verses.
Sometimes what you view as a clear cut answer may not translate to other people. Instead of being condescending why don't you point out where you think the answers specifically lie.
You could try and point to specific points in the bible that you believe support your statement. Not everyone has had the opportunity to read every line in the bible. If you purport to know the answer then it wouldn't be hard for you to supply the verses.
Sometimes what you view as a clear cut answer may not translate to other people. Instead of being condescending why don't you point out where you think the answers specifically lie.
Post 1: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:48 am Otseng has been banned
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.
Otseng has been banned for having multiple accounts and impersonating a moderator.
Re: How do Christians justify Exodus 31:12-15?
Post #18If you can't answer the subquestions, can you respond to the title question? That is "how do you justify" the text? Suppose Jesus did do away with it, it doesn't change the fact that it was once there. God used to command we kill people for working. How do you justify that?Paprika wrote:Yes. Whenever non-Christians go 'why don't you Christians follow this or that part of Jewish law' like shellfish or mixed fabrics, it's usually a sign that they don't know much about what they're criticising since the issue has been addressed in part and in whole about two millennia ago (off the top of my head cf. the relevant texts in Mark, Acts, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians and Hebrews).Justin108 wrote:
So your answer is "that question has already been answered"...?
