Same sex marriage is not a church issue.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

[KCKID]

[Replying to Jolly_Penguin]

Since God established marriage as between a man and a woman in the first place, then a same sex marriage is not a real marriage anyway.Anyone who claims scripture is silent on same sex relationships should go back and read again.

It seems that fewer and fewer people care these days what an ancient and often cruel book says about pretty well anything. That's the way it should be. Toss the wretched thing on to the highest shelf and let it gather dust if all it does is drive you to condemning others. Homosexuality and gay marriage is purported by the ignorant to be 'abomination' and punishable by death. Cruel nonsense! That the Bible has become the actual "God" to be blindly followed by many professed Christians is no less disconcerting than what the Koran has become to Muslim extremists. The latter actually kill people themselves while the former flaunt their piety while allowing that their "God" will do their dirty work for them. Both types of these people sicken me!

[fstopper]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Okay, so I assume that you know who established and defined marriage, please let know.

[KCKID]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Okay, so I assume that you know who established and defined marriage, please let know.

Um ...was it Moses as per the Bible . . .? What of those races of people who have never seen a Bible or know of Moses, the Christian God, etc. but marry anyway?

[fstopper]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Okay, so I assume that you know who established and defined marriage, please let know.

Um ...was it Moses as per the Bible . . .? What of those races of people who have never seen a Bible or know of Moses, the Christian God, etc. but marry anyway?

Yes, one cannot legislate or impose morality, but people do have the right to oppose sinful behavior.I oppose discrimination as well, but I don't agree with peoples choices if it goes against God will.This does not, or should not mean that I hate the people who advocate the behavior but many people jump to that conclusion.
Unfortunately some of those who cry "intolerance" the loudest are the most intolerant themselves.
If marriage was established in the Bible, by Moses or God, why is it not a church issue.

[fstopper]

[Replying to Jolly_Penguin]

Since God established marriage as between a man and a woman in the first place, then a same sex marriage is not a real marriage anyway.Anyone who claims scripture is silent on same sex relationships should go back and read again.

It seems that fewer and fewer people care these days what an ancient and often cruel book says about pretty well anything. That's the way it should be. Toss the wretched thing on to the highest shelf and let it gather dust if all it does is drive you to condemning others. Homosexuality and gay marriage is purported by the ignorant to be 'abomination' and punishable by death. Cruel nonsense! That the Bible has become the actual "God" to be blindly followed by many professed Christians is no less disconcerting than what the Koran has become to Muslim extremists. The latter actually kill people themselves while the former flaunt their piety while allowing that their "God" will do their dirty work for them. Both types of these people sicken me!

I personally do not condemn anyone nor do I think they should face the death penalty, although we all face it eventually,and I hope that is true of most Christians.What is condemned in scripture is the physical act itself, nowhere is the individual condemned(other than what we all face, eventually).
Christians who commit atrocities are being inconsistent with what scripture says,Muslins who commit atrocities are being consistent with what Mohammed says in the Koran.

[KCKID]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Okay, so I assume that you know who established and defined marriage, please let know.

Um ...was it Moses as per the Bible . . .? What of those races of people who have never seen a Bible or know of Moses, the Christian God, etc. but marry anyway?

Yes, one cannot legislate or impose morality, but people do have the right to oppose sinful behavior.

What is 'sinful' behavior? Behavior that is seen to be contrary to that expected by a 'deity' from a book written by men? If so, wouldn't that include the behavior of every human being on this planet? Do you 'sin' or are you somehow immune to sin?

I oppose discrimination as well, but I don't agree with peoples choices if it goes against God will.

Again, what is "God's will"? That we kill disobedient children? adulterers? Sabbath-abrogators? Non-virgin girls on their wedding night? What?

This does not, or should not mean that I hate the people who advocate the behavior but many people jump to that conclusion.

Are you some self-imposed 'moral cop'?

Unfortunately some of those who cry "intolerance" the loudest are the most intolerant themselves.

Could be. I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion, however.

If marriage was established in the Bible, by Moses or God, why is it not a church issue.

Were Adam and Eve married? If so, in which church?

[fstopper]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

Okay, so I assume that you know who established and defined marriage, please let know.

Um ...was it Moses as per the Bible . . .? What of those races of people who have never seen a Bible or know of Moses, the Christian God, etc. but marry anyway?

Yes, one cannot legislate or impose morality, but people do have the right to oppose sinful behavior.

What is 'sinful' behavior? Behavior that is seen to be contrary to that expected by a 'deity' from a book written by men? If so, wouldn't that include the behavior of every human being on this planet? Do you 'sin' or are you somehow immune to sin?

I oppose discrimination as well, but I don't agree with peoples choices if it goes against God will.

Again, what is "God's will"? That we kill disobedient children? adulterers? Sabbath-abrogators? Non-virgin girls on their wedding night? What?

This does not, or should not mean that I hate the people who advocate the behavior but many people jump to that conclusion.

Are you some self-imposed 'moral cop'?

Unfortunately some of those who cry "intolerance" the loudest are the most intolerant themselves.

Could be. I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion, however.

If marriage was established in the Bible, by Moses or God, why is it not a church issue.

Were Adam and Eve married? If so, in which church?

First of all, separation of church and state was intended to protect freedom of religion since early settlers to the U.S. were escaping governments that oppressed religious freedom.Most people seem to think it was to keep Christianity out of government affairs.
Those who have not had access to a Bible will be treated accordingly.
No one is immune to sin including myself, and I never said I was, but there is a distinction between wilful sin and those who slip up occasionally, and God has defined sin.Christians are supposed to make an effort to avoid sin, even though we fail more often than not.(myself included)
God does not expect us to kill disobedient children, etc.
Me,,...a moral cop,i don't think so and I don't know how you could reach that conclusion from what I sail.I love my children but I don't like everything they do,... God is the same.
Adam and Eve were married by God, there were no Churches until later.
You say you are an evangelical Christian,i am just curious as to why you became one, if you don't mind me asking.

[tugofwarstrum]

First of all, separation of church and state was intended to protect freedom of religion since early settlers to the U.S. were escaping governments that oppressed religious freedom.Most people seem to think it was to keep Christianity out of government affairs.

And here I would disagree with you. You see what the settlers ran away from was centuries upon centuries of religion running the government even though that religion was Christianity in many forms. by setting up the government and stating that the government shall not uphold or hold a religion was to make sure the countless religious wars of Europe would not happen in America. so since it was to keep religion out of government affairs that includes Christianity.

Secondly, the bible describes marriage as between 1xMan and 1xWoman, 1xMan and many woman, 1xMan and his slaves, 1xMan and the girl he raped, 1xMan and any woman that belonged to a dead family member. If you will not advocate for rapists to marry the person they raped as well as polygamy, as well as what you already support then go have a seat in your corner and put a cork in it.

[catnip]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves wheter they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

Actually, they can't. Churches are the only entities that can discriminate. Their members out in the world, in business such as the bakers of wedding cakes, cannot discriminate based on their religious beliefs.

[koko]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

As Americans we ALL respect the concept of separation of church and state as our Founding Fathers demanded. Therefore, we will all set aside our religious biases and respect everyone's right to the equal protection rights of the Constitution. On that basis, SSM is a matter for the law, not the churches.