Does it matter what Jesus looked like?

[Cmass]

I did a bit of research this evening concerning what Jesus might have looked like if he had existed as a historical figure and it got me to thinking a bit about the depiction of Jesus and the whole scene back then. There is some recent work that has been done in this area that concludes a rather homely savior:
* A bit over 5' tall, 110lbs, very dark sun dried skin, short & dark wiry hair. All in all, a small, scrappy, gnarly dude. I don't want to debate the science that went into reconstructing Jesus. It was extensive and has not been the basis of great challenge by most Christians.
But ultimately, it should not matter should it? It should only be a matter of curiosity but not really make any difference in our faith.....right? Why then do we - especially in the West - make Jesus in our own image?

The Jesus TV channels do this to the extreme. Last Xmas I watched the story of Joseph & Mary on the local Jesus channel and was happily appalled that Mary looked to be about 5' 10", long, slender shaven legs, long blond hair, clean, pearly white teeth, a perfect figure, high cheek bones and beautiful sparkling blue eyes. She was absolutely hot and no amount of sack-cloth garments could hide it. Same with Joseph (Of Malibu?).
But why? Why not make them more realistic? I have yet to see ONE Chrisitian-made film where the main characters have rotten teeth, scraggly hair, flies buzzing around their unclean backsides. And they all speak proper Elizabeathen English - even though rarely quoting the bible (only words from the bible; what a horrible screenplay that would be!) with American accents and communicate with typical modern gestures and expressions.
Why?

[Goat]

That phrase is not talking about the messiah you know. That is talking about the nation of Israel.

Prove it Goat! Just because you say it doesn't make it fact.

Sure. We have to take a look at the passages in Isaiah though. First, in the last part of Isaiah, does Isaiah identify the servant at all?

The answer to that is a resounding YES. Isaiah explicitly that the servant.

Isaiah 41:8

41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Isaiah 44:1-2

Isaiah 44

44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 45:4

45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 48:20 *note: Israel is often metaphorically called Jaccob many times in the Tanakh

48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.

Isaiah 49:3

49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

This, in the passages just previous to Isaiah 53, the servant is identified as Israel no less than 7 times.

[Easyrider]

[

Sure. We have to take a look at the passages in Isaiah though. First, in the last part of Isaiah, does Isaiah identify the servant at all?

The answer to that is a resounding YES. Isaiah explicitly that the servant.

Isaiah 41:8

41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Isaiah 44:1-2

Isaiah 44

44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 45:4

45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 48:20 *note: Israel is often metaphorically called Jaccob many times in the Tanakh

48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.

Isaiah 49:3

49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

This, in the passages just previous to Isaiah 53, the servant is identified as Israel no less than 7 times.

Nice try.

Let's take a look at Isaiah 42:

Isaiah 42 – Messiah

The Two Servants of Isaiah 42:

In Isaiah 42, the prophet introduces two servants. Isaiah 42:6-7 describes an individual who is a "light of the Gentiles," and who opens the eyes of the blind. Meanwhile, Isaiah 42:18-20 describes a 'blinded servant' who sees many things yet does not understand. The Scriptures showing the contrast and distinction between God's two servants follow:

The servant that gives light:

 Isaiah 42:6-7 "I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; (7) To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

The blinded servant:

 Isaiah 42:18-20 "Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. (19) Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant? (20) Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not."

These two passages cannot possibly refer to the same servant. After all, how can a blinded servant who does not understand be a light? If an individual did not understand, would he or she be qualified to teach others? If someone walked in darkness, would they have the ability to lead the way? Of course not!

Isaiah identifies these two servants in the previous chapters in his writings. Isaiah 41:8 refers to Israel as one of God's servants. According to Isaiah 6:9-10, Israel is the blinded servant whose knowledge and understanding has been taken away by the LORD Himself. Isaiah 29:13-14 explains that the reason why Almighty God took away the knowledge and understanding from the children of Israel was because of their continued rebellion in their sin and their removal of their hearts from Him.
The applicable Scriptures follow:

 Isaiah 41:8 "But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend."

 Isaiah 6:9-10 "And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. (10) Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed."

 Isaiah 29:13-14 "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: (14) Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid."

After viewing these passages, it is clear that Israel is the blinded servant described in Isaiah 42:18-20.

As previously mentioned, Isaiah 42 describes another servant of God. Zechariah 3:8 testifies that the BRANCH, the Messiah, is God's servant. In contrast to Israel, Isaiah also reveals that the Messiah, called "a rod out of the stem of Jesse," possesses the spirit of wisdom, understanding and knowledge. Obviously, He is the most logical and qualified "light of the Gentiles." The applicable Scriptures follow:

 Zechariah 3:8 "Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH."

 Isaiah 11:1-2 "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: (2) And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD."

After viewing these passages, it is clear that Isaiah discloses two servants in his first Servant Song. However, only the Messiah is the qualified light of the Gentiles because it is He who has the spirit of wisdom, understanding and knowledge. Meanwhile, Israel is described as being in spiritual darkness. This is further established by the fact that Isaiah 11:10 refers to the root of Jesse, the Messiah, as an ensign of the people:

 "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Additionally, Isaiah 42:22 describes the blinded servant Israel as robbed and spoiled, snared in holes, and hid in prison houses. Meanwhile, Isaiah 42:7 reveals that the Messiah, the light of the Gentiles, as the one bringing out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house:

 Isaiah 42:22 (Regarding Israel) "But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore."

 Isaiah 42:7 (Regarding the Messiah) "To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

The only possible conclusion that can be made by viewing these verses is the following: In Isaiah's first Servant Song, the prophet Isaiah refers to two servants, the Messiah and Israel.

http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/rrj_f ... _song.html

[Cmass]

Oh come, on PLEASE! I can't stand 25 pages of biblical quotes - especially ones so far off topic. One of the major problems with strict biblical interpretation is that it cannot exist. You can try to out-quote each other all day long and use the quotes to prove just about anything you want. The bible is not very precise. If you were quoting scientific literature concerning the way metallic galvanization works there would be no argument about what it says - because it is precise.

Now, back to the topic:
Why the sexy Jesus and the hot blonde Mary? In YOUR opinion does picking a girl to play Mary who looks like Christi Brinkley help give the appropriate biblical perspective?[/i]

[Goat]

[

Sure. We have to take a look at the passages in Isaiah though. First, in the last part of Isaiah, does Isaiah identify the servant at all?

The answer to that is a resounding YES. Isaiah explicitly that the servant.

Isaiah 41:8

41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Isaiah 44:1-2

Isaiah 44

44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

Isaiah 45:4

45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isaiah 48:20 *note: Israel is often metaphorically called Jaccob many times in the Tanakh

48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.

Isaiah 49:3

49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

< SNIP a huge cut/paste job .. I'll let people speculate on why Easyrider always users large cut/paste jobs for 95% of his arguements>

http://www.kingmessiahproject.com/rrj_f ... _song.html

You are forgetting the Jewish poetic tradition of refering to the same object twice in two different matters. THere is no 'messiah' Both are refering to the nation of Isreal.

[AB]

Oh come, on PLEASE! I can't stand 25 pages of biblical quotes - especially ones so far off topic. One of the major problems with strict biblical interpretation is that it cannot exist. You can try to out-quote each other all day long and use the quotes to prove just about anything you want. The bible is not very precise. If you were quoting scientific literature concerning the way metallic galvanization works there would be no argument about what it says - because it is precise. If I was to write a bible it would be far shorter, the stories would be more entertaining and they would more directly support the lesson.

Now, back to the topic:
Why the sexy Jesus and the hot blonde Mary? In YOUR opinion does picking a girl to play Mary who looks like Christi Brinkley help give the appropriate biblical perspective?[/i]

I think your angle on the sexy Jeus and hot blonde Mary does not carry weight in the realm of Christ. If I interpret your angel correctly, speaking the Gospel doesn't include getting sexy actors to "lure" people in. This is outside Christ. This is how the world acts. Biblical perspective resides in the the bible.

[Cmass]

OK, now we're getting somewhere.

I think your angle on the sexy Jeus and hot blonde Mary does not carry weight in the realm of Christ.

If it carries no weight then does it even matter who or what plays Christ in these films? Does it matter to YOU?

If I interpret your angel (Christian Fruedian slip?) correctly, speaking the Gospel doesn't include getting sexy actors to "lure" people in.

This is what I am asking you. Is it appropriate for Christians to specifically choose sexy people play pivotal biblical characters?

This is outside Christ. This is how the world acts.

Obviously this is how the world acts. A preacher during Sunday's service is how the world acts. I am describing how Christians - whom I assume are part of the world - act as it pertains to theater and whether from your perspective as a Christian - if you step back a moment and look at it - whether you think it is appropriate behavior. Would you have less trouble with this kind of question if I simply changed the topic: Is it appropriate for Christians to stop on the street, listen to a poor man rant, offer support and perhaps some bread? Wouldn't you simply say "yes"? If I asked is it appropriate for Christians to run through the streets naked shooting at people? Wouldn't you simply say "no"? I am asking what you think about choosing sexy people to play biblical roles. It's that simple.

Biblical perspective resides in the the bible.

Biblical perspective resides in YOU - otherwise the Bible is unknowable. You read it from your perspective, listen to other people talk about it from your perspective and interpret it from your perspective and internalize it; you have no other choice. You can't experience anything from anywhere but your own perspective. Inspired or not, it is a book with ink on paper that you see with your eyes, and it means something different to you than it does to me or to other Christians or Muslims or the Pope. Your perspective is unique to YOU.

[klien]

http://www.faceanalyzer.com/member.aspx?id=128208

[Cmass]

Now THAT is truly hilarious.
And and an excellent example of exactly what I am talking about.

[wizanda]

If a Nazarine was a tribe, has anyone thought how the fact Yeshua...is a version of Eshu which is an African prophecy of someone come to set up the world to prove rascism, so darker skin...then again he could have had a funny hat on as the prophecy says and been a she as the chance of isa being isis is very high due to the nature of teachings and that many at the time did believe in reincarnation untill it was wiped out by the church...
Not to be rude yet away from both sexist idea and colour as the spirit never was the body...

[Cmass]

I am asking this of Christians, and the bible makes it quite clear that Jesus was a male of the human species in real, bodily form.
So, why the sexy Jesus?
I have asked this directly (this thread) as well as placed it in a number of other threads and I have yet to hear a true, honest answer that makes any sense whatsoever. I am absolutely convinced people will avoid direct debate with me on this one. Here is why:
The portrayal of Jesus as a sexy person sells more Jesus stuff which is critical for the Jesus industry (yes, there IS a multi-billion dollar Jesus industry). However, acknowledging Jesus is being portrayed this way would be an admission that he is simply being pimped as a marketing tool. And if that was admitted to then the whole house of cards would come tumbling down. NOT the Christian faith or religion mind you, but the fundamentalist business side of it - which would be an embarrassment. SHOULD be an embarrassment.
Christians would have far more credibility with me if they honest about this.