How can you say Christianity is not a religion?

[OnceConvinced]

I hear it so many times, but only from Christians, that Christianity is not a religion. When I was a Christian, even, I used to say “Christianity is a relationship with God� even though there is no bible backing for this claim. In fact James says:

Jam 1:26 & 27 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

This is pretty much the what Jesus promoted and practiced, ie, looking after those in need and also keeping oneself free from sin and the influences of the world. James makes it quite clear that it’s religion.

Also many of these Christians who claim they are not religious practice religious activities on a regular basis and even insist that many of them are necessities, eg, baptism, communion, prayer, quiet times.

Here is a list that most Christians conduct, some of them on a regular basis. RELIGIOUS activities:

Saying grace before meals,
Attending church every Sunday morning
Baptism
Communion
Prayer meetings
Raising you hands to god in worship
Closing your eyes when praying
Standing together in a congregation and singing
Holding hands during worship or prayer
Altar calls
The laying on of hands
Annointing with oil
Chanting the lord's prayer
Quiet times
Speaking in tongues
Holy laughter
Being slain in the spirit
Spiritual warfare
PRAYER!

All one has to do is step into a church to see the religious activities that go on. I wrote an observation of a typical church service here:

How religious is church?

If you care to read it, it out lines the many religious rituals that make up a church service, from the greeting at the door to the closing prayer. Even just going to church every week is a religious ritual in itself.

Even if you don’t go to church you conduct religious rituals like prayer and bible readings. Even repentance and the sinner’s prayer is a religious act.

So based on the above facts,

How can anyone claim that Christianity is not religion? (and how do you get around the verses in James)

Where in the bible does it say that Christianity is not a religion or simply just a relationship with God?

Does anyone here who is not a Christian agree that Christianity is not a religion? Or is this simply just a Christian fantasy to try to make their religion something special?

[OnceConvinced]

sorry, which post are you referring to?

No worries. Post 14.
Peace.

What you seem to be suggesting is that Christianity is a religion but your particular brand of Christianity is not. However, I dispute that as James tells us Jesus's version of Christianity IS a religion and yes, it's about actions. However it's still described as religion by James. He uses that word. You can't just ignore it and try to flag it away.

Also remember (as I said in another post), Jesus instigated religious rituals like communion and prayer times in private. He also endorsed baptism.

So you may like to think your particular brand of Jesusism is special, but it's simply just another religion and I'm betting you regularly indulge in religious rituals like prayer and bible studies, even if you don't go to church.

Christ also said that the kind of worshipers the Father wanted are those who worship in spirit and in truth. Not on 'this mountain' or 'that mountain'.

Worshiping IS a religious ritual.

And just in case some define Christianity as faith (this is part of my post from the other thread):

Faith is a religious thing as well!

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 78 by OnceConvinced]

Personally I think for the sake of simplicity Christianity is a religion but it is important to remember the distinct difference between it and other religions.

There is nothing to do in Christianity that is necessary (apart from put your faith in Jesus saving grace) and that is not really a doing action at all.

Romans 10:9-10New International Version (NIV)

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Other religions require the believer to earn their salvation through works of various kinds.

The thing is if we define a religion by what one needs to do then a whole catch bag of things that do not appear as religions suddenly fall within that perview. In order to get a better job one has to follow their boss. My friend just told me that he needs a new car because his car sticks out in the parking lot as not good enough. Is he really a believer or just a hanger on? Time will tell.

If you are willing to define a god as a thing that you follow and willing to acknowledge that there are rules for following most things then many endeavours become a religion. While it seems obvious when you have no skin in the game I sure some will wish to disagree.

[McCulloch]

There is nothing to do in Christianity that is necessary (apart from put your faith in Jesus' saving grace) and that is not really a doing action at all.

Romans 10:9-10New International Version (NIV)
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Other religions require the believer to earn their salvation through works of various kinds.

You are right about one thing and wrong about two. The one thing that you have right is that Christianity teaches that salvation is by grace. It cannot be earned or merited; it is a free gift from God.
The first thing that you are wrong about is that there is nothing to do that is necessary in Christianity. You alluded to one thing: you must declare aloud that Jesus is Lord. In the story about the sheep and the goats, Jesus clearly indicates that salvation will be withheld from those who believe Jesus is Lord and publicly proclaimed it. Yet action is demanded from those who wish to be saved. Jesus said, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all yoursoul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.“ Doesn't that require action? Look at the context of this passage. Is it not talking of salvation?

By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,� and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected.

Can you read this and not believe that obedience is not required?

If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
…
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,� and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.� You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? … You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. … For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

You see that the only place in all of the Christian scriptures where the words faith and alone come together teaches rather strongly against the idea of salvation by faith alone. A dead faith is not a saving faith.
The second thing you are wrong about is that other religions teach that believers must earn salvation through works. This is a lie, propagated by Christian apologists. Islam, Judaism and Sikhism all teach their disciples to seek unmerited favor from God.

[Zzyzx]

.

Personally I think for the sake of simplicity Christianity is a religion

Agree

but it is important to remember the distinct difference between it and other religions.

Of course, all / most religions are distinctly different from other religions. So what?

Another important matter to consider is that within the umbrella term "Christianity" there is great differences between sects / denominations.

There is nothing to do in Christianity that is necessary (apart from put your faith in Jesus saving grace) and that is not really a doing action at all.

Not all of Christendom agrees with this statement (and also quote scriptures to back their position).

If you are willing to define a god as a thing that you follow and willing to acknowledge that there are rules for following most things then many endeavours become a religion.

I, for one, do not accept that definition of gods – and do not, for instance, regard money or fame as a "god."

While it seems obvious when you have no skin in the game I sure some will wish to disagree.

All of us have "skin in the game" to some extent as long as religions and religionists attempt to foist their beliefs on others through coercion, politics, law, propaganda, etc.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 80 by McCulloch]

Well following Jesus is hard, I'll admit that

You kind of need Jesus to do it.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 81 by Zzyzx]

I, for one, do not accept that definition of gods – and do not, for instance, regard money or fame as a "god."

Sure but then what is idol worship if you remove all the idols.

All of us have "skin in the game" to some extent as long as religions and religionists attempt to foist their beliefs on others through coercion, politics, law, propaganda, etc.

I don't know if anyone else regards free debate on a website in any of those ways.
It's almost like you can look at a cloud and see God in it if that is what you think is occurring.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 82 by Wootah]

Thank you for that response. I am at a complete loss as to how it relates to points I raised or how it in any way shows that you are right when I claimed you are wrong, but thanks anyway.

You claimed that one distinguishing feature of Christianity is that it requires nothing from its followers, only belief and confession. I believe that I demonstrated in some detail that you were completely off the mark; a statement that could only be made by someone who had virtually no acquaintance with biblical Christianity.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 80 by McCulloch]

Well following Jesus is hard, I'll admit that

You kind of need Jesus to do it.

I personally found following Jesus easy. I surrounded myself with like minded people. It was attempting to make sense of the Bible that was difficult for me.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 79 by Wootah]

Personally I think for the sake of simplicity Christianity is a religion but it is important to remember the distinct difference between it and other religions.

Yes, each different and distinct religion is a different and distinct religion. Great tautology. They are all still religions.

There are many kinds of SHOES as well.. they all go on feet and are called "shoe".
Different kinds of CANDY.. all taste pretty yummers.

There is nothing to do in Christianity that is necessary (apart from put your faith in Jesus saving grace) and that is not really a doing action at all.

That may be YOUR personal opinion about what Christianity must be. And so what?

There is actually nothing to do in Christianity except calling yourself a Christian. That can mean literally anything at all. I am not convinced that you represent all Christians.

Romans 10:9-10New International Version (NIV)

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Invalid use of Biblical quote alert.

Using the Bible to promote your opinion isn't authoritative. I'm quite sure that Christians who don't agree with you can also pull out their favorite Bible quote that supposedly proves a position that would contradict yours.

Other religions require the believer to earn their salvation through works of various kinds.

So what? There are many religions with all manner of strange beliefs. Are any of them based on reality? These are all human opinions, even yours.

And please remember, if you say that SOME of them might be wrong, you must prove that YOU yourself aren't the one who is wrong.

You must also admit that therefore, not ALL of them can be right.

But that doesn't mean that all of them aren't WRONG... they can ALL be wrong. Humans are fallible. You are human, therefore, it's not a real stretch to say that YOU might be also wrong.

The thing is if we define a religion by what one needs to do then a whole catch bag of things that do not appear as religions suddenly fall within that perview. In order to get a better job one has to follow their boss. My friend just told me that he needs a new car because his car sticks out in the parking lot as not good enough. Is he really a believer or just a hanger on? Time will tell.

I fail to see what jobs and cars have to do with a belief in some particular theology.

If you are willing to define a god as a thing that you follow and willing to acknowledge that there are rules for following most things then many endeavours become a religion. While it seems obvious when you have no skin in the game I sure some will wish to disagree.

Your argument would make sense if ALL a religion is a following of any rule. I think that reducing the concept of religion to following rules is ridiculous. Of course, it's way more than just that.

Argument rejected due to a useless over-simplification.

[OnceConvinced]

There is nothing to do in Christianity that is necessary (apart from put your faith in Jesus saving grace) and that is not really a doing action at all.

That all depends on what brand of Christianity you subscribe to.

Romans 10:9-10New International Version (NIV)

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Other religions require the believer to earn their salvation through works of various kinds.

The thing is if we define a religion by what one needs to do then a whole catch bag of things that do not appear as religions suddenly fall within that perview. In order to get a better job one has to follow their boss. My friend just told me that he needs a new car because his car sticks out in the parking lot as not good enough. Is he really a believer or just a hanger on? Time will tell.

If you are willing to define a god as a thing that you follow and willing to acknowledge that there are rules for following most things then many endeavours become a religion. While it seems obvious when you have no skin in the game I sure some will wish to disagree.

We could get into a Scripture "Card game" here with contrary scriptures, some telling you things you must do to be saved and other scriptures where nothing is needed. But that is not the intended subject of this thread.

One thing I have learnt over the last 8 years is that Christians have many many excuses of why I a was never a true Christians and it all has to do with things I supposedly did or didn't do.