Are Christians obscessed with sex and violence?

[Cmass]

For several days I made a very honest attempt to experience being a Christian. During that time I spent several hours in our local Christian bookstore. My preconceptions about the contents of that store were shattered when I found it was not a store of hope, peace, calm and goodwill. I can only describe it as a house of horror and a bizarre form of pornography.
Book after book after book concerning the apocalypse, about who will burn in hell, about what hell torture is like, graphic depictions of suffering and pain. Some were even devoted to talking about why God thinks war can sometimes be a good thing. (I'm not kidding!) There was an incredible amount devoted to our "enemies" and violence and God's punishments. I was repulsed.
There were also many, many, many books about sex: The role of sex in marriage, how to make sex in your marriage better, how God views sex, how men should manage there lust, what teenage girls can and cannot do with their privates, how teenage boys can keep their virginity and what God thinks about masturbation. Of course there were plenty of the obligatory gays and why they are doomed to eternal hellfire and methods for overcoming their gay lifestyle. Some books even combined the sexual and violence when talking about gays. It was truly bizarre and unsettling.
And then, of course there are the sexualized drawings of Jesus - even in the children's books.
And, of course, ironically there were books about "family values" and how terribly sexualized our culture has become.
The sheer volume of this material along with it's prominent display was shocking.


Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?
I think it would be immoral to bring my child in there and expose him to all that. Am I right?

[juliod]

Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?

Um, yes.

It's hard to write long posts when you are as good as me at getting to the point.

DanZ

[micatala]

Please, let me here some fundies on this one.

Just a suggestion from a moderator. Fundies might be considered a derogatory term, and civility would suggest using a more 'spin neutral' term like 'fundamentalist Christian' or 'conservative Christian'.

From a diplomatic standpoint, you would also be more likely to get a response from those you are looking to engage.



[Now taking the moderator hat off]

Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?

I would agree that a good many are, and certainly the literature you cite is testament to this. I would offer a few possible explanations for this.

Firstly, one could certainly make the case that the Bible, if not 'obsessed with', at least has ample discussion of sexual mores. Sexual sins are featured prominently in both the old and NT, and are dealt with rather harshly for the most part. Christians who tend towards giving the Bible paramount importance, or tend towards literal interpretation might be more inclined to identify with the views and treatments described.

The same could be said for violence, at least with respect to the OT (although there is of course the Book of Revelations), which certainly describes some very violent and even gruesome events.

In both cases, it is probably fair to say this is a product of the culture where the books were written. I would gather that the type of 'tribal warfare' and capital punishment described in the OT was not unique to the Hebrew culture.

For a Christian who does not view humanity or God as 'progressing' but rather being 'unchanging', it might be easier to accept these behaviors as 'OK' or if not OK, at least relevant and perhaps unavoidable in our current world.


Personally, I have some amount of sympathy with respect to the attitudes for sex, but not the violence. I don't consider myself 'prudish' or overly moralistic, but I don't think one has to be overly conservative to see the cultural emphasis in America on 'sexual titillation' as a very unfortunate development. To me, reducing, especially women, to the status of sexual objects, which seems to be the trend in TV and movies anyway, devalues our humanity. Sexuality is part of what we are, but much of what you see seems to depict 'sexuality is all that we are.' I sometimes wonder what has happened to the forceful feminists of the past. Why aren't they stridently objecting to this?

I think it is also fair to say that irresponsible sexual behavior can cause a lot of problems, especially for teenagers. Some respond by 'control methods' (e.g. abstinence only education), some respond ignoring the problem or pretending it doesn't exist, and some responde by promoting responsible sex education. I don't agree that 'strict control methods' are the best approach or that they are likely to work, but I can certainly sympathize with the idea that 'something should be done' to help promote responsible sexual behavior.


The 'apocalyptic violence' thing is a whole 'nother kettle of fish though. I view this trend as more than unfortunate, I think it is potentially dangerous. Viewing ambiguous prophecies and speculative interpretations thereof as fact, and then promoting policies that are viewed as furthering these interpretations is not a good thing. THis is especially true when the fulfillment of the prophecies is seen as more important than the lives and welfare of some of our fellow human beings. The idea that it is OK to nuke a country, and thereby kill thousands or millions of people, because it is part of the fulfillment of prophecy is truly repugnant.

[Cmass]

Just a suggestion from a moderator. Fundies might be considered a derogatory term.

I apologize if you take it as derogatory.
Ironically, I had never heard of the term until I joined this forum, plenty of people use it, and I have not, until now, heard the suggestion that it was offensive. I assumed it was simply a shorthand version of "FUNDAmentalist Christian" as Ats for Atheist etc... Is there some other abbreviation you would find acceptable? I really don't care as long as I am not angering anyone and it is shorter than spelling out Fundamentalist Christian each time.

From a diplomatic standpoint, you would also be more likely to get a response from those you are looking to engage.

Fair enough.

As requested I have censored the text in question. It was the last line that had this word in it. I had added that line after I had noted Micatala was the only response.

- Chris

[Goat]

For several days I made a very honest attempt to experience being a Christian. During that time I spent several hours in our local Christian bookstore. My preconceptions about the contents of that store were shattered when I found it was not a store of hope, peace, calm and goodwill. I can only describe it as a house of horror and a bizarre form of pornography.
Book after book after book concerning the apocalypse, about who will burn in hell, about what hell torture is like, graphic depictions of suffering and pain. Some were even devoted to talking about why God thinks war can sometimes be a good thing. (I'm not kidding!) There was an incredible amount devoted to our "enemies" and violence and God's punishments. I was repulsed.
There were also many, many, many books about sex: The role of sex in marriage, how to make sex in your marriage better, how God views sex, how men should manage there lust, what teenage girls can and cannot do with their privates, how teenage boys can keep their virginity and what God thinks about masturbation. Of course there were plenty of the obligatory gays and why they are doomed to eternal hellfire and methods for overcoming their gay lifestyle. Some books even combined the sexual and violence when talking about gays. It was truly bizarre and unsettling.
And then, of course there are the sexualized drawings of Jesus - even in the children's books.
And, of course, ironically there were books about "family values" and how terribly sexualized our culture has become.
The sheer volume of this material along with it's prominent display was shocking.


Are fundamentalist Christians obsessed with sex and violence?
I think it would be immoral to bring my child in there and expose him to all that. Am I right?

It is fundamentalist Christians, or our entire culture?

[Cmass]

In both cases, it is probably fair to say this is a product of the culture where the books were written. I would gather that the type of 'tribal warfare' and capital punishment described in the OT was not unique to the Hebrew culture.

Yes, the "OT" was indeed a product of it's time and not the literal word of God.

Firstly, one could certainly make the case that the Bible, if not 'obsessed with', at least has ample discussion of sexual mores. Sexual sins are featured prominently in both the old and NT, and are dealt with rather harshly for the most part.

Yes, the bible is indeed saturated with sex and violence. But still, I wonder why.....?

For a Christian who does not view humanity or God as 'progressing' but rather being 'unchanging', it might be easier to accept these behaviors as 'OK' or if not OK, at least relevant and perhaps unavoidable in our current world.

Hmmm War and violence is OK. This is very enlightening and revealing. It might explain some of Pastor John Hagee's behavior as well as the president who takes his advice seriously. (John Hagee believes the apocalypse is upon us and that war in the Middle East is simply a part of that whole process)

I don't think one has to be overly conservative to see the cultural emphasis in America on 'sexual titillation' as a very unfortunate development.
Yes, you are right and I think this is quite evident. Sex is a part of sales. Although, as much as you might not like it, if you were to be honest with yourself, you would likely be aware that a beautiful scantily clad woman gets your attention in an ad more than a homely man.
Further, this points out the irony of what I found in the Christian store. For a group of people who seem to focus on how awefull it is to teach sexual education in schools etc.. and how our society has gone to hell in a handbasket because many people are comfortable having sex out of wedlock, their own store is filled with sex.

To me, reducing, especially women, to the status of sexual objects, which seems to be the trend in TV and movies anyway, devalues our humanity.

Yes, it certainly can. I would remind you, however, of how far we have come - even with our hyper-sexual culture: The depiction of women in the bible is far worse. They were not much further up the ladder than slaves.

Sexuality is part of what we are, but much of what you see seems to depict 'sexuality is all that we are.

Not too sure what observations help you draw this conclusion. Yes, it is a part of who we are. I would argue that procreation is a huge part of who we are and help define how we interact. There is much fascinating reading in the area of human behavior.....

I sometimes wonder what has happened to the forceful feminists of the past. Why aren't they stridently objecting to this?

You might want to read some history of feminism. It was originally about choices. Besides, the feminists "of the past" still do indeed object to the over sexualization of women. It is the fat and happy women of the present who don't seem to care all that much - except when the ocassional teenager dies from anorexia.

[Easyrider]

Further, this points out the irony of what I found in the Christian store. For a group of people who seem to focus on how awefull it is to teach sexual education in schools etc.. and how our society has gone to hell in a handbasket because many people are comfortable having sex out of wedlock, their own store is filled with sex.

I suspect the vast majority of any books on sex in Christian book stores is about God-ordained sex in marriage, not about promoting illicit gay sex or sex outside of marriage.

And I go to a lot of Christian book stores too, and your description that the stores are "full" of sex stuff is ludicrous. They're normally set up by subject matter: Biblical history, Christian fiction novels, Bibles, pastoral help books, apologetics, children's Christian books, etc., etc.

[Cmass]

I suspect the vast majority of any books on sex in Christian book stores is about God-ordained sex in marriage, not about promoting illicit gay sex or sex outside of marriage.

I never said they were promoting anything.
Let me clarify: A large number of books in the Christian Store I visited appeared to be about sex with the words "sex" "sexuality" or "sexual" in either the title or the subtitle. Some books without "sex" in the title still discussed it or referred to it often. I don't care if they are about gay sex, married gay sex, straight sex, married straight sex or any other kind of sex. The point is, there is a lot of it.

And I go to a lot of Christian book stores too, and your description that the stores are "full" of sex stuff is ludicrous.

It is not full of sex "stuff". (no sex toys, but I did review an interesting book that discussed sex toys - and it was within easy reach of any wandering 12 year old) Sex and violence (especially violence) play a major role in the literature.
No, it is not ludicrous. (but it may be Ludacris: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludacris ) Perhaps their selections were ludicrous? Perhaps the stores you visit are less ludicrous. Maybe as a part of answering my question you could simply state the the stores you visit are not like my description. Perhaps name some store chains (in the Seattle area) that you find acceptable. I thought I made myself clear: I did NOT go into this store expecting what I saw. This is why I started this thread! I expected to find sex and violence buried deep, but it was not. It was right on the front covers, sometimes in blood-red text.

They're normally set up by subject matter: Biblical history,

Heavy on sexual deeds and misdeeds of the past. Full of violence.

Christian fiction novels,

Heavy on the immorality of sexual deeds or outright descriptions of immoral behavior and full of violence.

Bibles,

Do I need to quote Mark Twain on this?
"It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies."
- Letters from the Earth

pastoral help books,

Sexual-help. How to stop being gay or stop touching things you should not be touching. Once again, full of violence or threats.

apologetics, children's Christian books,

And sexy Jesus in every single one. Why make Jesus a tall, handsome white guy with with bright white teeth, long hair and a nice white robe? It is deceitful and is no less manipulative than a light beer ad.

Violence appears to be a major motivating factor as a way to "put the fear of God" into you. Behave or be tortured - and here is an example of someone who misbehaved and was tortured.

It works: Get your attention with the word "sex" and then follow it up with blood and gore. Perfect.

I could give you plenty of examples and even took some cell phone pictures which I may upload. But I don't think it would make any difference because you would likely draw me into a debate about what was meant by this word and that word and then justify it through scripture. I believe the only honest answer for you is "I did not experience that in the bookstores I found. If it is true of the bookstore you found then it is an embarrassment to Christianity"
But, then I would still ask you to tell me why there are enough current Christian books to make this store seem like a porno/horror house.

[Easyrider]

Which specific Christian book store are you referring to? Name and address please? I'd like to check out the veracity of your claims. I think you are grossly overblowing all this.

[Cmass]

Lifeway Christian Store. They are a huge chain & I would be surprised if you don't have one near you.
How much of this BS do you want to see? This is a teen tiny amount of the heaping mound. Remember, the volume of sexually related topics is not nearly as rampant as the violence:
Here is a cell phone picture I took while there:

And here is another:


Author: Vicki Courtney
Mothers are desperate to find tools to help them raise a godly daughter in an ungodly culture.

This study will give mothers of teenagers tools to help their daughters navigate six of the fiercest battles of the teen years:
# Conformity
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# Modesty
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There have been a proliferation of books on the market for young woman extolling virtue and purity and the value of the Christian lifestyle.

But are young girls reading books on virtue and spiritual growth? Or are they reading the teen counterparts to what they perceive as the sophisticated popular adult magazines that promise to reveal (at least the latest) secrets to beauty, fashion, thinness, love, and happiness?

Vicki Courtney knows teen girls. Her message is exactly what they need to hear to counter the cultures lies and distortions about who they are and what they should become.

TeenVirtue will give them the information they need in a format they will read. Designed like a stylish magazine, TeenVirtue tackles the top 40 issues teen girls face such as "Staying inline when you're online," "the Sexy Craze," and "Girl Politics."

The Truth about Homosexuality: The Cry of the Faithful
John Harvey
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This book addresses the complex moral and pastoral questions involved in both homosexual orientation and activity, including an analysis of lifestyles in accord with the Christian Gospel and those running counter to Christian moral teaching. Fr. Harvey, a pioneer in the pastoral care of homosexual persons through his organization Courage, gives a comprehensive view of the issues involved in homosexuality. Harvey shows that many reputable therapists have provided empirical evidence that people with a homosexual condition can have a change of orientation to the heterosexual condition. In addition to an extensive study of the possibility of change of orientation, this book also discusses the question of gay-rights legislation and same-sex marrriages, and the challenges posed by such legislation. 377 pages from Ignatius.


40 Minute Studies; How Can a Man Control His Thoughts, Desires, and Passions?
Bob Vereen
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Christian men are in the midst of a life-long process. They're being transformed by the renewing of their minds, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, they're crucifying the sinful nature with its passions and desires. But the world, the flesh, and the devil go to great lengths to thwart the process. Our culture is obsessed with sex. Pornography, declining morals, pervasive visual stimulation, rampart divorce, and epidemic adultery. In this six-week study you'll learn that God has provided everything you need to resist temptation. Through the examples of men in Scripture--those who fell into sin and those who stood firm--you'll find hope for controlling your passions. You'll learn how to choose the path of purity. And you'll find assurance that through the power of the Holy Spirit and God's Word, you can escape the corruption of this world and one day stand before God blameless and pure.

Eros Defiled: The Christian & Sexual Sin
John White
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With tough-minded compassion, seasoned wisdom, and an awareness of sin's destructiveness, White offers forgiveness and a way out for Christians struggling with premarital and extramarital sex, homosexuality, and masturbation. He concludes with a telling chapter on how your church can help strugglers in a context of love and forgiveness. Paper, InterVarsity.

Every Man's Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Purity One Victory at a Time
Stephen Arterburn, Fred Stoeker
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As featured on New Life Live! This resource will help you recognize the root issues and reasons men stuggle with sexual purity. Written in a disarming, conversational style, this book also contains a special section for women helping them to understand and support the men they love.

Pure Desire
Ted Roberts
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Dr. Ted Roberts found Christ in the skies over Vietnam, where he flew life-and-death missions as a Marine fighter pilot. Unbeknownst to his wife, however, he also brought home from the war an addiction to pornography. Since his recovery, Dr. Roberts has spoken to thousands of men about similar problems, and has reached an inescapable conclusion: Hell is using sexual bondage to tear the church apart! Our world, our homes, and our churches have become raging battlefields over this issue. In these three sessions with Ted, he addresses single and married people, with keys for winning the battle of staying pure by respecting God's boundaries, exercising self-control and by walking in purity. Ideal for pastors, church and lay leaders, small groups marriage classes, men's groups, retreats, support groups, youth and Christian counselors.

False Intimacy: Understanding the Struggle of Sexual Addiction
Dr. Harry W. Schaumburg
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Stealing glances at pornographic magazines. (God NO!) Reading novels just to get to the "good" parts. Finding more excitement outside marriage than in it. With frank honesty, Dr. Schaumburg examines the roots behind these kinds of behaviors, offering realistic biblical direction for healing and restoration. Includes new information on cybersex, homosexuality, women and false intimacy, and more. 245 pages, softcover from NavPress.


Sexual Ethics: An Evangelical Perspective
Stanley J. Grenz
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Sexual Ethics: An Evangelical Perspective clarifies the theology of sexuality, and places sexuality in its proper place in creation. Several key questions are examined, including the nature of sexuality, how marriage expresses sexuality, how singleness expresses sexuality, and how the church should view and respond to sexuality.

The Silent War: Ministering to Those Trapped in the Deception of Pornography
Henry J. Rogers
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Once relegated to seedy bookstores, pornography is now rampant on cable, videos, and the Internet. It destroys more marriages---including Christian ones---every day. A corporate chaplain, Rogers shares his own story of addiction and how God helped him overcome it. He then provides concrete steps for guiding others to climb out---or avoid---pornography's pit. 240 pages, softcover from New Leaf.

Protecting Your Child in an X-Rated World
Frank York, Jan LaRue
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Pornography is pervasive---it's in our towns, schools, and computers---and all our children are vulnerable. Learn how to porn-proof your home, protect your children from pornography, and fight its evil presence in your own community. This well-researched book includes appendixes for legal reference, Internet filtering devices, and other resources. 225 pages, softcover from Focus on the Family.

And here are some of the wonderful children with family values:


Blah blah blah blah.
I simply don't have the time or the space to refer to even a fraction of this clap trap. A brief listing of the works refering to violence would 1,000 pages long.