Many atheists might be closet Deists!

[oldbadger]

I must be thick.
It's taken far too long for me to arrive at this proposal.
And on enquiry I discover that the question has been shouted for yonks and yonks and I never saw it.

Quite simply, if you believe that there is a reason for the existence of everything, then how can you be a fundamental atheist? It just cannot be good science!


Here's a small selection of other ideas on the question.......



There is no such thing as a true atheist - Heaven Net

www.heavennet.net/writings/atheist.htm
Here is why you are not really an atheist. ... If I were to say that there was no such thing as gold in China, then to prove my statement, I would have to search ...
Are There Really No Atheists? - Secular Web

infidels.org/library/modern/michael_martin/no_atheists.html
Some Christians maintain that there are no atheists. They believe, of course, that some people profess to be atheists. But according to them these people suffer ...

Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that's ...
www.science20.com/.../scientists_discov ... _not_exist...
6 Jul 2014 - This line of thought has led to some scientists claiming that “atheism is .... While there is certainly growth in the number of bleak narratives being ...

[oldbadger]

Atheists reject "atheistic" deists as true atheists, based on the above definition of Theos. And that WAS my point................

............ thanks for this.
This thread has, yet again, showed me that people who call themselves atheist can reject other atheists' ideas and perceptions.
The variation of definitions and disagreements between atheists, as shown on this and other threads, has given me so much information about atheists as I never knew before.

[Bust Nak]

What? Why would I deny that?

I don't know why, it was very odd when you were very adamant that dictionaries documented common usage but no standard definition, as if they are different.

If you are using the term 'standard definition' to mean 'common usage', then we have no po8nt of disagreement.

Great. I am glad to hear you don't disagree that term 'standard definition' can mean 'common usage.'

You would be conceding my argument, so why would I deny it?

You say that like you aren't the one doing the conceding. Either way, like I said, I am just glad you are not denying it.

That is unless I am celebrating too earlier, and you merely don't deny it, but aren't willing to go as far as to affirm that yes, 'common usage' are considered 'standard definitions?'

Says who?

Says both you and I apparently, now that you've made it clear you are not denying that 'standard definition' can mean the same thing as 'common usage.'

LOL You mean 'standards', plural.

Yeah, one or plural, parts of a one standard or different standards. Doesn't bother me, just a matter of perspective. The point was, there is/are standard definition(s).

They are both commonly used.

Therefore, trivially, they are both standard definitions, as the terms mean the same thing.

There is no standard by your own admission. Only MANY, MANY 'standards'.

My admission where exactly? The record will show that I neither said nor implied there is no standard, indeed I have been arguing otherwise. I would appreciate it if you could take more care in addressing what I actually wrote, I have to ask because it's not the first time you made such claims.

More importantly, from where did you ever get the idea that there can be many standards and no standard at the same time? That's rather ironic after you accused me of being contradictory.

How would you know what usage they are applying to be able to point that out?

By direct observation, how else could one tell when someone is using his words in a strange way? So reading what they wrote in text, or listening to their speech. Seems too obvious as an answer, I am guess that's not what you are really asking? Perhaps you would like to rephrase your question?

[parsivalshorse]

[Replying to post 204 by Bust Nak]

Actually no, I would prefer never to attempt to engage with you again. If you wish to ban me for saying so do it. You are rude, insulting and deliberately obnoxious. And are doing so as a moderator.

I am not going to tolerate being bullied by you.

If my choice is to continue to accept your bullying or be removed from the site, remove me.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 205 by parsivalshorse]

If you honestly believe you are having trouble with one of the mods, then I suggest taking it up with the other mods, or perhaps Otseng himself.

[otseng]

[Replying to post 204 by Bust Nak]

Actually no, I would prefer never to attempt to engage with you again. If you wish to ban me for saying so do it. You are rude, insulting and deliberately obnoxious. And are doing so as a moderator.

I am not going to tolerate being bullied by you.

If my choice is to continue to accept your bullying or be removed from the site, remove me.

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[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by oldbadger]


I don't know but based on my personal expériences of knowing people that have found themselves in crisis and told me "I don't believe in God but I found myself praying", I suspect that there are a few atheists, if waiting for their child to come through a life threatening operation would utter some kind of prayer to a higher power.

Richard Dawkins refered reluctantly to what seems to be a universal tendancy to believe in God, some arguably refer to this phenonomen as the "god gene" so that may well be a factor to consider when looking at this question. In the end I don't think anyone but god* could give the definitive answer to that question.


*By god I am naturally refering to Steven Hawking.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 208 by JehovahsWitness]

"I don't believe in God but I found myself praying",

According to some people I've talked to, this is pointless and wouldn't have resulted in anything, and those people are Christians! These Christians says that belief needs to happen first and then the evidence (i.e. the response) comes later. Having no belief in a god (or an active belief there are no gods) and uttering words akin to a prayer to an empty room would be pointless.

I also have to ask...you mention you know people who didn't believe, but said prayers anyway (and presumably converted?). Did you know people who didn't believe, said prayers anyway...and didn't convert? In other words, do you count your "successes" along with your "failures"?

[Zzyzx]

.

I don't know but based on my personal expériences of knowing people that have found themselves in crisis and told me "I don't believe in God but I found myself praying", I suspect that there are a few atheists, if waiting for their child to come through a life threatening operation would utter some kind of prayer to a higher power.

This sounds a lot like to old "No Atheists in foxholes" mantra that has been proved false repeatedly.

Many of us who face difficulty or life threatening circumstances do NOT resort to "uttering some kind of prayer to a higher power", but DEAL WITH IT through personal effort and perhaps assistance from (real) friends.

I see nothing wrong with people seeking comfort and assurance from gods -- provided they do not claim that everyone has similar needs.

[Danmark]

The 'problem' is the point - the definitions vary, some infer a denial others a disbelief. This varience demonstrates THAT THERE IS NO STANDARD DEFINITION. Which is the point.

You keep saying this, but it remains incorrect no matter how many times you repeat it. You've been given the standard definition several times.

Tho' there are variations and nuances and versions of virtually any subject, 'atheism' along with many words has a standard definition.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 171 by Bust Nak]

How do you intend to enforce a global standard definition of 'atheism'?

"Enforce?" You are the only one talking about "enforcing" definitions. Either you communicate clearly, using standard definitions, or you do not. There's no need to go on a long and winding road, filled with the potholes of excess pedantry to make a exhaustive treatise on the possible meanings of each word you employ.