Judeo-Christian Doctrine is Sexist

[Skullymund]

[font=Times New Roman]Religion has been the greatest oppressor of women's rights throughout the history of man. Judeo-Christian doctrine preaches that women are second rate to men: "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14) The old testament was much more gruesome: "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)

There are so many things wrong with the bible, it is often difficult to know where to begin when refuting or criticizing it. The subjugation of women has been one of the greatest detracting forces on society. The best way to cure poverty is the empowerment and education of women, and for too long have the religions of the world preached the madness that woman are property to men, on the level of cattle. People such as Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris write about a future in which we can be free of the shackles of wish thinking, of a more humanistic world in which we derive morals not from ancient religious texts, but from a discussion of the human condition as it exists in reality, and how we can improve lives and reduce suffering.

Any sort of religion that preaches for the subjugation of women should be looked at not as sacred, but as barbaric, and at best written by the hands of man, not those of God. It is clear that any sort of faith that is so disgusted by a woman's vagina, and the sorts of things that relate to it, must be written not by a divine and loving creator, but by ignorant, iron-aged men.

Feel free to challenge my views.[/font]

[JehovahsWitness]

Any sort of religion that preaches for the subjugation of women should be looked at not as sacred.

I would agree. Fortunately that is not the case in True Christianity.

subjugate:
To defeat and gain control of (someone or something) by the use of force

Jesus discouraged all use of physical violence and rather than force people to obey God he taught to simply present the truths he believed in and allow people to chose or not to submit to them.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Judeo-Christian Doctrine is Sexist

I think this is more complicated than a yeah it is, or a no it ain't.

Where a gender "accepts their role", can we properly consider that in terms of a negative connotation?

In my household, I do the trash hauling, and the bug stomping, among other chores. The pretty thing does the grocery making, and the britches mending, among other chores. Both are "traditional roles" we both accept as our responsibility.

So, am I being sexist when I swear it up and down the pretty thing does her the best grocery making, and I do me the best bug stompin'? I think not. I think we've merely found a system of shared responsibilities that works.



Where the problem would lie is in saying a woman can't do her no bug stompin', nor no trash haulin'. Cause I'm hear to tell it, she's stomped me a mudhole, and hauled me off to the loony bin. She don't play. I've had her hit me so hard I had to be woken up to hear what it was she hit me with, and she hit me so hard, I to this day still can't remember what it was, and I'm too scared to ask, a-frettin' she'll do it again. You grind her grits to your own peril.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

I would agree. Fortunately that is not the case in True Christianity.

What exactly qualifies as "true Christianity? Does Saul of Tarsus qualify as a "true Christian?"


"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


Women were considered inherently wicked in Biblical times, based on their role in original sin.


"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman." (Eccles. 25:13)

"Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (Eccles. 25:22)

"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go." (Eccles. 25: 26)

"The whoredom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty." (Eccles. 26:9-10)

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

"A shameless woman shall be counted as a dog; but she that is shamefaced will fear the Lord." (Eccles.26:25)

"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach." (Eccles. 42:13-14)

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 3 by JoeyKnothead]

I would agree, the key here is choice and freedom. Removing people's freedom to choose what they will or will not submit to is oppressive.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 5:

I would agree, the key here is choice and freedom. Removing people's freedom to choose what they will or will not submit to is oppressive.

Ah, but what of those who must "submit" to Christian legislation that says they can't be married, or they can't have an abortion? (where such does now, or usta)

I'm all for the rights of the believer, but less for the right of 'em to impose their beliefs on others. That's "subjugation" of a high and offensive nature.

But yeah, if some chick says she's cool with the Christian deal, who am I to say she's being "subjugated"? I just think she's got some things wrong, up to and including maybe trying to convince her out of it.

I can accept the "subjugation" of having to wear my boots to get in the farmer's market, but I sure don't accept I need to be proud for having done it.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 6 by JoeyKnothead]

I agree, that was the point of my original post, nobody should be forced to do what they don't want to do, especially over what is done to their own body. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I know we have had to fight long and hard for the right to refuse blood transfusions and we still hear horror stories of women being tied down and forcably transfused against their will.

JW

[Willum]

Err, you mean, if you are a woman, particularly, you'd have to endure unequal sacrifice with men?
Isn't that fair, though, because it was a woman, Eve, who ate the apple, bringing all woe and sin down upon us for more than 3000 generations?

[JoeyKnothead]

[Replying to post 6 by JoeyKnothead]

I agree, that was the point of my original post, nobody should be forced to do what they don't want to do, especially over what is done to their own body. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I know we have had to fight long and hard for the right to refuse blood transfusions and we still hear horror stories of women being tied down and forcably transfused against their will.

JW

Did I just learn the Jehovah's Witnesses don't try to legislate their religious beliefs? (as opposed to the normal stuff where ya just think it's a good way to go whether Jehovah says so or not?)

Can the Jehovah's Witnesses disassociate themselves from their God in this way, and be cool with him for it?

Serious question I ain't so much trying to debate, but sure wanna understand. I offer these questions in this thread, as they may shine light on the validity (or at least acceptance) of your position.

(Edit: I'll propose these and other questions in the Ask About A Belief forum, here)

[PghPanther]

Any sort of religion that preaches for the subjugation of women should be looked at not as sacred.

I would agree. Fortunately that is not the case in True Christianity.

subjugate:
To defeat and gain control of (someone or something) by the use of force

Jesus discouraged all use of physical violence and rather than force people to obey God he taught to simply present the truths he believed in and allow people to chose or not to submit to them.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

the Bible states that "man is made in the glory of God............but woman is made in the glory of man"........

.......if I was female that would be enough right their to pitch the whole book out in the trash bin as utter sexism by an ignorant insecure nomadic war tribe of male sheep herders....

As it is I metaphorically do the same thing when it comes to using such a book to base reality on.......