The transendent, Living God

[Elijah John]

Most believers agree that God cannot be depicted with images. That would be a violation of the 2nd Commandment.

Questions for debate, can the Living God be contained in one collection of books known as the Bible? Or is He bigger than the Bible?

If He transcends, then can the Qur'an also teach us about God? Or nature itself? Do we have anything to learn from other religions?

And finally, if one believes the Bible is all we can know about God, is that limiting the Living, transcendent God?

Can God be contained in any theology, tradition, Church, or holy book? Or does He transcend them all?

[tam]

[Replying to post 30 by JehovahsWitness]

You could always respond to my comments on your commentary and see for yourself if I actually addressed it or not.


Peace again to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 31 by tam]

I do appreciate your efforts to respond and I indeed looked at all your answers. I was very specific in the points I made with regard to Jeremiah I do not feel you have addressed any of those points in your posts. See [ post 30 ]. Still since you feel your point was essentially a side point, I'll let it lie.

Regards,

JW

[catnip]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

I don't know what that expression means but I do hold to 2 Tim 3:16 "

"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right." -

... and conclude that the inspirited writings in the entirety are God's method to teach his will and purpose.


JW

In that definition you quoted, is the statement that it (scripture) teaches us to do what is right. One of the things that scripture and particularly Jesus, but Paul also, teach us not to do is to judge others. God is y(our) judge. Ironically, a sin is a sin. Don't worry about the spec in your brother's eye.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 26 by dio9]

Some of his best teachings come from his debates with Pharisees. Matt. 9:14 , for one. In response to people who asked why he and his disciples don't practice fasting, he said can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them". A wedding is a time for eating drinking and making merry. In this wonderful way Jesus is telling them this is the beginning of the Messianic age and he is ushering it in. The scribes and Pharisees just didn't get it. They were so hung up on their laws they weren't able to join his party.

Yes, His questions and answers to the religious leaders show what a master He was in debate.

Especially notable was what is recorded in Mark 12:13-37.

As verse 34 says, "And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions".

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

Elijah John,

YOUR QUOTE: If He transcends, then can the Qur'an also teach us about God? Or nature itself? Do we have anything to learn from other religions?

Elijah, you have to accept that your god is the Hebrew Christian god named Yahweh whos origin is in the Old Testament, and who was the god of the Jews only (Amos 3:2, Deut. 7:6). Yahweh is a different god concept than Allah of the Muslim belief system within the Quran. Therefore, theyre two distinctive and separate gods of the Bronze and Iron Age. You continually use the term god as if there was only one god, this is true if you want to use the god youre speaking about as the god of the Jews only.

Relative to your question pertaining to the Quran, yes, the Muslim Quran can only teach you about their god concept named Allah. This is because the Judeo-Christian bible and the Muslim Quran are explicitly two mutually exclusive books with their two different god concepts.

To explain this more simply, Allah commands the Muslim to; "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (unbelievers of Islam)" (Quran 5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Jews and Christians) (Quran 2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (Quran 9:123). And most importantly, Jesus is NOT the son of God nor God incarnate (Quran 112:3 and 18:4-5) Would your Christian god write such words? No, he would not, therefore proving Allah and Yahweh are two different god concepts and religions of the primitive biblical era.

The only thing you can ever learn about other godly religions is the fact that they all have different gods that are not your god named Yahweh, therefore positing the fact that all gods of said religions are not the same god as you erroneously proffer at times.

In closing, your god Yahweh even admitted that there were other gods in existence in the 2nd Commandment; "You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3) therefore proving the one god concept is moot.

[Elijah John]

Elijah John,

YOUR QUOTE: If He transcends, then can the Qur'an also teach us about God? Or nature itself? Do we have anything to learn from other religions?
Elijah, you have to accept that your god is the Hebrew Christian god named Yahweh whos origin is in the Old Testament, and who was the god of the Jews only (Amos 3:2, Deut. 7:6).

A poorly supported assertion here, the Deuteronomy verse indicates only the commonly held understanding that the Jews as are the chosen people. Chosen for what? To bring ethical monotheism to the nations, to be a kingdom of priests. Consider Psalm 117.1

O praise YHVH all ye nations: praise him, all ye people.

Yahweh is a different god concept than Allah of the Muslim belief system within the Quran. Therefore, theyre two distinctive and separate gods of the Bronze and Iron Age. You continually use the term god as if there was only one god, this is true if you want to use the god youre speaking about as the god of the Jews only.

Both Muslims and Jews consider the God of Abraham to be THE God, the one and only.

Relative to your question pertaining to the Quran, yes, the Muslim Quran can only teach you about their god concept named Allah. This is because the Judeo-Christian bible and the Muslim Quran are explicitly two mutually exclusive books with their two different god concepts.

Mutually exclusive only when mainstream Christians worship Jesus as God. Jews do no such thing, and most Jews see the God of Islam to be the same God of Abraham as the God of Judaism. Christians who do not worship Jesus are in harmony with this thinking as well.

To explain this more simply, Allah commands the Muslim to; "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (unbelievers of Islam)" (Quran 5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Jews and Christians) (Quran 2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (Quran 9:123).

Interesting, because Muslims are allowed to marry Jews and Christians, but not idolaters. Christians and Jews are considered fellow "people of the book". Also, earlier in the same Sura 2 the Qur'an reads:

"Fight for the sake of God those who fight against you, but do not attack them first, God does not love the agressors "

And most importantly, Jesus is NOT the son of God nor God incarnate (Quran 112:3 and 18:4-5) Would your Christian god write such words? No, he would not, therefore proving Allah and Yahweh are two different god concepts and religions of the primitive biblical era.

The Christian God is the God of Jesus, who was a monotheistic Jew. The real "different God concept" is between those who make Jesus a god, vs non-Trhinitarian Christians along with Jews and Muslims.

The only thing you can ever learn about other godly religions is the fact that they all have different gods that are not your god named Yahweh, therefore positing the fact that all gods of said religions are not the same god as you erroneously proffer at times.

Not so, most religous people realize that God is one, and that the differences are in the means of approaching God, not in any division of gods. Most realize this except for Evangelical Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses or polytheistictic people who actually do worship a multitude of gods. Or some non-theists who do not understand subtle differences and not so subtle similarities in religous approaches.

You seem to have bought into Evangelical notions, hook, line and sinker, whether or not you personally embrace them, you seem to be arguing from their pov.

But they do not speak for all monotheists, nor do they even speak for all Trinitarians.

In closing, your god Yahweh even admitted that there were other gods in existence in the 2nd Commandment; "You shall have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3) therefore proving the one god concept is moot.

There was en evolution in Hebrew thought from monolatry, (other gods exist, but only one is to be worshiped) to the pure monotheism, of Isaiah's time. 45.5

I am YHVH, there is none else, there is no God beside me...

Also, have you ever heard the term "god fearers"? They are historical evidence that YHVH was a universal God, not just the "god of the Jews" as you earlier suggested

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

[Replying to post 36 by Elijah John]



Elijah,

Lets cut through the insidious act of apologetics, hermeneutics, contradiction, rhetoric, and your perceived notions where you fail to cite references to your claims.

Allah, Yahweh, and Jesus/God have their own writings, respectfully, the Quran, Talmud/Torah, and the Judeo-Christian Bible, which said writings ALL contradict each other. This fact alone hardly shows that a one god concept wrote them all.

Within said writings, in part, we have the Hebrew God Yahweh of the Jews with His writings within the Torah, and the Talmud, who contradicts the Christian bible. The Jews holy writings deny Jesus as God, Divine Being, the son of god as an intermediary between humans and God, the Messiah or saint.

Then you have the Muslim God Allah, who blatantly contradicts the Christian and Hebrew God in his Quran. In part, Allah commands the Muslim to; "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (unbelievers of Islam)" (Quran 5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Jews and Christians) (Quran2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (Quran9:123), and again, Jesus is NOT the son of God nor God incarnate (Quran 112:3 and 18:4-5).

Anyone with a smidgeon of rational thinking understands that the Hebrew Talmud, the Muslim Quran, and the Christian New Testament contradict each other, therefore, it cannot be the same god that inspired them all! 2+2=4! Christian hermeneutics and apologetics have fogged too many for too long over the centuries, and has eliminated critical thinking to the contradiction between these faiths!

" What a one god concept said once in their holy writings, He couldn't have said in many different and blatantly contradicting ways in the holy writings of each of the religions mentioned above!"

Anyone that proffers that the Christian, Jew, and Muslim Bronze and Iron Age gods are the same god for the aforementioned three religions, even though all are different gods that have their origins with being Abrahamic, is blatantly uneducated to the holy writings of said gods, and logic 101!

Elijah, find your latest apologetics books, and lets really dig deep into this topic.