JEALOUSY: A good attribute in a god?

[2Dbunk]

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

The above is strong stuff. In a land that cherishes the choices Capitalism has provided us with, and Freedom beyond "free will," we Americans welcome competition. But the Abrahamic God would proscribe that right and, in the face of our Constitution, punish offender's children thru the 3rd and 4th generation. IMO that's a bit harsh for children to suffer for something they had no say or control about. IMO this, alone, points to human authorship of the Bible, as flawed as this command is.

1) Is it necessary for God to be jealous in light of the fact he has given us free will and has access to everything there is anyway?

2) Is it necessary for God to be jealous at all?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

If there is no God but God and yet God is jealous that is not not love. That's obsession. It's an unhealthy fixation and a sure sign of neurosis.

You seem to have different definition than Bible has.

Obsession is said to be Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.

I dont think that fits to God.

Jealousy is said to be for example anxiety over an anticipated loss or status of something of great personal value.

But those are modern meanings. If one wants to understand what the Bible is telling, it is wise to read more than single words. When Bible tells God is jealous, it seems to mean that he cares us and dont want to lose us to perdition.

And just what, or who, is the source of this "perdition?" Whose plan is this, anyway?

[OnceConvinced]

But the bible tells us that if we are jealous, then that's not love. So the bible goes against what you are saying here.

Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4

Envy and jealousy are not same in Bible context.

Who's talking about envy? It's completely irrelevent to this thread. We're discussing jealousy here. The bible quite clearly tells us that love is not jealous. So you can't claim to love someone while being jealous... at least according to the bible.

But those are modern meanings. If one wants to understand what the Bible is telling, it is wise to read more than single words. When Bible tells God is jealous, it seems to mean that he cares us and dont want to lose us to perdition.

There needs to be consistency applied here to the bible. You need to apply the same meaning to the word "jealous" in all instances. So if love is not jealous, then if God is jealous he can't be considered loving.

When Bible tells God is jealous, it seems to mean that he cares us and dont want to lose us to perdition.

Where do you actually get your definition of jealousy? Is it made up by you to fit with the God you want to believe in? Or have you studied Hebrew or Greek or whatever the original language is and check on the actual meanings?

Your definition is nothing like jealousy. It's some other word, but not jealousy. There is no dictionary meaning that has any thing close to your definition. And no, Strongs is not a real dictionary.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Ah the whole 'jealous God' thing - cracks me up...
Why, in the world would anyone want to worship a jealous god (or God)? Jealousy is such a negative human concept. Someone could argue that it's not a bad thing to be jealous (always making an excuse for God as it were) but overall, it's not considered a good thing to be jealous - it shows lack of confidence and self worth, as well as lack of self esteem. So why would anyone want that in a god?!?!
Make no sense to me.
Seems, though, people cling to gods that are more 'human like' than those that aren't. I suppose that, in itself, makes more sense.
But an all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, all present creator of everything that was, is or will be...jealous?
No thanks

[Peds nurse]

]Peds nurse[/url]"]
If we are his bride, his beloved people, would he not want us to be faithful to him?
Imagine if you were married, but had affairs with multiple people, should your spouse not be jealous? [/quote]

It's not just one bride he's got though. We're talking millions of brides even SAME-SEX brides!

So if a man has millions of wives has he any right to be jealous if a few are unfaithful?

...and why would those few that are unfaithful be any less important than those who are? It is like having children, how can one child be less valuable than anyone else?

He is jealous for us, because he loves us so intensely.

It would make him a hypocrite as he is the one who set the standards for love:

Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4

Actually, that is a very good point! We have a covenant with God, through the blood of Jesus. Now, I am saying that because I want you to know from where I come with this next sentence. It is a bond, as Christ takes us to be His bride, we are to be faithful to Him. What bride cheats on Her husband? Of course He is jealous for us, and well He should be. We are His beloved creation. Love isn't jealous in the sense of being envious over a person, but the union of two people? Absolutely! If we couldn't be jealous over our union with our spouse, there would't be any problem at all with adultery.

He is not willing to share us with other images of Gods.

Really, it makes no sense that a perfect being would ever have such petty human emotions such as jealousy. I mean what does it really matter to this god if a few of us worship other gods? Is it really so wounding to his ego?

It is because He knows what is best for us. Would you want your children to go up to other adults and ask them questions concerning how to live, what college to go to, if they should get married, ect..? Parents are invested in their children's lives.

Let's face it, jealousy is about ego. It's about "oooh don't you dare share your love with any one else". I just don't see why a god who is so all together and all powerful would ever be upset about someone sharing their love with others. It really does make him seem very human and very vunerable.

So, if your girlfriend cheats on you, it's about your ego? The love that she has for you is special (or I would hope). Do you want her to love people in the exact way she loves you? We must hold sacred, what should be sacred.

He created us, and wants to have a faithful relationship with him, so that he can shower his love upon us, and direct us in the way we should go.

But why would this god who is so all together, complete and perfect ever be concerned with this sort of thing?

This is because He loves us with an everlasting love, it is a love that we cannot even grasp. If we, who are only human, can love and want someone to be faithful to us based on that love, think of God..with even more love. He wants and desires to be a part of our lives.

He doesn't need our faith or our love. He has plenty of other wives he can share is love with. Why get all wrathful and angry about those who don't?

I have plenty of children, why would I get upset if only one of them rejected me as a parent? It matters because he doesn't want anyone to perish. It matters because he sent his son to the cross for all. It matters because he wishes to be separated from no one.

If we as humans acted like that, we'd soon find ourselves with nobody to love. Imagine if we said to all our friends and family "You must only love me and nobody else. You must only spend your time with me, not anyone else."

This is the kind of behavior you are defending when it comes to God.

OC, if God says to love Him and love others, then clearly that goes against what you said. He wants us to love others, but he also wants us to love Him. If we humans acted as God would have us, based on loving Him and others, we would have no need for police or jails. God loves us...and just as we would not share our spouses, neither does God want to share us.


Hey....have a beautiful day!

[PghPanther]

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

The above is strong stuff. In a land that cherishes the choices Capitalism has provided us with, and Freedom beyond "free will," we Americans welcome competition. But the Abrahamic God would proscribe that right and, in the face of our Constitution, punish offender's children thru the 3rd and 4th generation. IMO that's a bit harsh for children to suffer for something they had no say or control about. IMO this, alone, points to human authorship of the Bible, as flawed as this command is.

1) Is it necessary for God to be jealous in light of the fact he has given us free will and has access to everything there is anyway?

2) Is it necessary for God to be jealous at all?

The traits attributed to God's personality are a clear sign of ignorant superstitious tribal nomads projecting on to their imaged God their own personality traits resultant from all their worries of land grabs in desert life of those times.

How else would an all power God, creator of the universe worry about a small piece of land as a covenant?..........or keeping women in the status of possessions?..........or allowing slave ownership?..........or showing me a sign by slicing off the end of your penis as a deal with me?

If I was this God I would say "here look..........I'll make you your own planet you can live and not worry about fighting over a slither of desert in the middle east."

Nope this God has to act just like everyone else around that when they don't have the land or status they once had because of someone else's move into their space and then they get jealous and want revenge.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 5 by Kenisaw: "
We can't have free will if the god is all knowing as he claims."]

You mean as you claim. HE claims HE knows all of HIS works, that is, that which HE has created which also means that if HE did not create the results of our free will decisions, then HE did not know them and there is NO dichotomy between HIS being all knowing and our free will.

I do expect you to keep harping on the pagan definition of being all knowing because it makes it easy to denigrate the stance of (most) Christians that we have free will but that in itself is not the proof that what you say is reality...my supposition of another logical explanation that is in accord with the bible is enough to prove it is not the only definition at all.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 5 by Kenisaw: "
We can't have free will if the god is all knowing as he claims."]

You mean as you claim. HE claims HE knows all of HIS works, that is, that which HE has created which also means that if HE did not create the results of our free will decisions, then HE did not know them and there is NO dichotomy between HIS being all knowing and our free will.

I do expect you to keep harping on the pagan definition of being all knowing because it makes it easy to denigrate the stance of (most) Christians that we have free will but that in itself is not the proof that what you say is reality...my supposition of another logical explanation that is in accord with the bible is enough to prove it is not the only definition at all.

You mean as you claim. HE claims HE knows all of HIS works, that is, that which HE has created which also means that if HE did not create the results of our free will decisions, then HE did not know them and there is NO dichotomy between HIS being all knowing and our free will.

Kenisaw claims what he claims, and he claims it directly. God never directly claims anything at all. Surrogates do all of the claiming for him in His name. Surrogates such as yourself who have taken on for themselves the role of speaking for God. Neither Kenisaw, nor I, nor any other of the non believers on this forum have ever attempted to endow ourselves with such a lofty role. Only a believer would be that self-satisfied.

[1213]

And just what, or who, is the source of this "perdition?" Whose plan is this, anyway?

I have understood that it is not good to let unrighteous live forever, because they would turn life eternal suffering. And I believe God is good and righteous. That means, he ends unrighteous life, because it would be bad to allow it to continue forever. Therefore I think the perdition is demand of Gods goodness and righteousness. I believe God hopes all become righteous, but I believe He also wants to remain good and righteous. That means, unrighteous die. It is better than eternal suffering for all, even though I dont believe God wants people to die.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to Peds nurse post #12 & post #24]

PN wrote ( Post #12)

I see God in nature. I suppose, the difference is what we are tuned in to. I am tuned into God's spirit. When I see a flower, I think of it's beautiful color, and the splendor of its beauty. This takes me to a verse where it tells us to not worry. If God clothes the flowers in such beauty, will he not meet our needs as well? So, I say a thank you to God, for his provisions in my life.

Being a nurse, you took biology, right? Many of these things that appear beautiful can pretty much be explained in photosynthesis, soil condition, rainwater fertilizer or lack thereof. If a god is the provider of these things for our benefit, why would he provide equally beautiful things where there are no people? Coral reefs far away from people; colorful flora and fauna at depths that humans cannot survive? These are not provided for just our benefit; they are part of this planet's biosphere that relies so much on the warmth of the Sun. These things can be enjoyed without the self-centeredness (Him speaking directly to each one of us) like you experinced.

He speaks to me through everyday things, situations, and people. Once I remember walking, and I asked God to give me a glimpse of how much he loves his people. I was so overwhelmed with love, but for a brief second, that I couldn't even breathe. It brought me to my knees.

You have the makings to be a shaman! No kidding, reading in World Religions, shaman is described as one exhibiting extraordinary recognition of Spirits. How many do you know that experience similar conditions? Not very many I bet. You may be gifted in bringing on delusions of euphoria psychologically. Of course, I'm only guessing. But people do enhance sincere personal beliefs all the time -- we all do.

My daughter is a nature person...not really a God person. I told her that we can find God in nature, and we take him with us when we leave. If it is just nature, we leave it there, to visit again.

Evidently shamanism isn't an inherited trait in your situation. Sure we can take a natural scene with us . . . in our memory or in a photograph.

PN wrote ( Post #24):

He created us, and wants to have a faithful relationship with him, so that he can shower his love upon us, and direct us in the way we should go.

OC wrote:
But why would this god who is so all together, complete and perfect ever be concerned with this sort of thing?


This is because He loves us with an everlasting love, it is a love that we cannot even grasp. If we, who are only human, can love and want someone to be faithful to us based on that love, think of God..with even more love. He wants and desires to be a part of our lives.

OC wrote:
He doesn't need our faith or our love. He has plenty of other wives he can share is love with. Why get all wrathful and angry about those who don't?

I agree with OC. It sounds like your god is a child that hasn't grown up: ". . . play my way or I'm taking my ball and going home," if it were so innocuous -- instead he blasts: ". . . DO IT MY WAY OR YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY." That sounds pretty psychotic to me. I certainly don't see any love in his intentions (they really are a form of blackmail). The message of love is on condition of a threat that is hardly veiled!

I have plenty of children, why would I get upset if only one of them rejected me as a parent? It matters because he doesn't want anyone to perish. It matters because he sent his son to the cross for all. It matters because he wishes to be separated from no one.

Why does anybody have to perish? "He" has put an additional burden on us to "love Him -- for what?" We didn't ask "Him" to be born (in whatever situation we found ourselves born into). That is so brutish for "Him" to threaten us -- why can't "He" just leave us alone to find our own way to a better life? I know I did -- it's such a rush to know that one can lift oneself by their own bootstraps and make a successful life!

I would never wish for someone to perish (other than some politicians that want to have there way with me). That's why I say God doesn't exist -- how can I have more empathy than a god?
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Islam is ALL that a religion can be!

[1213]

Who's talking about envy?

For example King James and World English Bible:
Love is patient and is kind; love doesn't envy. Love doesn't brag, is not proud,
1 Corinthians 13:4

When Bible tells God is jealous, it seems to mean that he cares us and dont want to lose us to perdition.

Where do you actually get your definition of jealousy?

From what the Bible tells and how it describes jealous God.