Biblical Contradictions

[achilles12604]

Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.


What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

[Cmass]

Easyrider wrote:
Next time you're down and out try finding a BITTER ATHEIST'S HOMELESS SHELTER!

[achilles12604]

I think that one guy's sign is funny.

[Cmass]

Well, some homeless people feel like God has indeed forsaken them so the atheists are simply extending an unconditional hand to them. No need for bible study to eat here! Plus, there are work seminars and clinical counselors etc..
Pretty good deal.
I have worked quite a bit with homeless people and heard more stories about their lives than you could possibly imagine. Some are truly sad & others are obvious BS but all are fascinating.
And almost all of them quote scripture on a regular basis - but often interpret it very differently.

[achilles12604]

Well, some homeless people feel like God has indeed forsaken them so the atheists are simply extending an unconditional hand to them. No need for bible study to eat here! Plus, there are work seminars and clinical counselors etc..
Pretty good deal.
I have worked quite a bit with homeless people and heard more stories about their lives than you could possibly imagine. Some are truly sad & others are obvious BS but all are fascinating.
And almost all of them quote scripture on a regular basis - but often interpret it very differently.

Could you provide me with examples of places that require things (bible study, etc) in return for food? I keep hearing this accusation but I have never experienced it, and I am fairly well known in this area.

[Cmass]

Could you provide me with examples of places that require things (bible study, etc) in return for food? I keep hearing this accusation but I have never experienced it, and I am fairly well known in this area.

The Christian Mission in downtown Seattle. While they won't actually refuse food to you, they require prayer before meals as a matter of course. Some of the staff treat guests with distain and preach the gospel to them constantly. Some homeless people will not go there on a cold rainy night because of the religious aspect of it.
Still, this organization does serve an extremely important role in the community and I commend them for it. But, I think the time in prayer should be replaced by time in detox, counseling, medication and job training.

[samuelbb7]

Thank you Goat.

Dear Platypus

What leads you to believe this?

You quoted the passage about the narrow gate. Let me ask you this do the majority of people care for others and work to help others? That is indeed a minority so there will only be a few who actually get to heaven.

Besides, the issue is not whether humans are capable of following all God's doctrines. It is whether the Bible is capable of providing a followable doctrine in the first place!

Well I believe and do so. I am a Seventh day Adventist and to us the Bible has a well developed doctrine.

I quit Christianity in part when guessing which of the thousands of denominations would lead me to salvation proved too futile.

In the end I decided that Satan's doctrine was my safest bet. Now at least I know where I will end up in the afterlife.

First Denominations do not lead you to salvation. JESUS does. Second the majority of Christian denominations that say the Bible is true say the exact same thing. That you must believe in JESUS and let the HOLY SPIRIT take control of your life. Most say you must be born again. As you are an intelligent person you should be able to read the Bible and ask questions to find truth.

It is your choice to choose death. In my church we teach death in hell is to die and cease to exist. That is your right.

[samuelbb7]

I am glad that some Atheists are willing to help people.

My children work in the Star of Hope mission and they do not see forced prayer or Bible studies on anyone. People come in they eat and those who wish can stay for Bible studies or they can live as the wish.

While detox is good. If a person feels they are forgiven and worthwhile they can also kick drugs and alcohol. JESUS offers hope and help to become a person free of drugs.

[Cmass]

Thank you Goat.

Yes, let us thank the Father, the Son, and the Holy Goat.

Let me ask you this do the majority of people care for others and work to help others? That is indeed a minority so there will only be a few who actually get to heaven.

Shall I throw up now, or later?
You really, really, really need to read up on human behavior and the evolution of cultures as much as you read up on scripture and listen to your local scriptural mouthpiece. YES, humans care for each other. YES, humans are altruistic. YES, atheist humans are altruistic. I started another thread that asked (paraphrasing) "Would you, as a Christian, rather have your local pastor or a local atheist friend standing next to you if a train was about to hit your kid? Who do you think would be most likely to save the child while risking his own life?" The answer says a lot about your pre-understanding of atheists and their mindset.

It is your choice to choose death. In my church we teach death in hell is to die and cease to exist. That is your right.

Now THIS makes sense to me. Seriously. If you do all the nifty things we tell you to, you will live in orgasmic pleasure the rest of eternity and never, ever, ever get bored with it. If you don't, well, you cease to exist.

While detox is good. If a person feels they are forgiven and worthwhile they can also kick drugs and alcohol. JESUS offers hope and help to become a person free of drugs.

This is absolute Bunk with a capital B. There are plenty of studies done in this area (but, granted they were done by the anti-Christ scientists). My personal experience: My cousin is on his deathbed because he decided Jesus was more qualified than medical professionals to treat his alcohol and cocaine habit. He lost absolutely everything: His huge house, his beautiful wife, his yacht, his Microsoft job, his health, his emotional stability...absolutely everything. And through the whole thing he refused medical intervention because he was absolutely, completely, without a doubt convinced that Jesus could save him if he just prayed and believed enough.
Bunk, with a capital B.
Ask Mark Foley about his molestation by a priest which led to his propositioning children for sex (what happened to his freedom of choice?). He just checked into an alcoholic detox clinic. Why? Didn't Jesus work? Or was it that he just didn't pray in the right way? Ask Tom Delay, who was at the forefront of this Bunkus. He prayed daily and simply could not stop his evil ways. Ask George Bush, ask Jerry Falwell, ask Pat Robertson as he calls for assassinations, ask John Hagee who talks about the end of the world, ask Darrell Cole who wrote a book about why God thinks war is good. Yes, these people are all friggin' crazy and yes, they are all MAJOR Christian leaders with more influence than Gandhi in this country. And yes, they ALL believe that if you allow Jesus into your heart, you can be healed of all sorts of maladies.......specifically, one would assume, the maladies they possess.
Yes, you can go on and on about how they did not read this passage or that passage properly in the bible. Go on about how they did not REALLY believe. Go on about how they were just human with problems just like the rest of us. Blah. Blah. Blah.
These, and thousands of others just like them are simply NO different in their actions than the rest society at large. Except, perhaps a bit worse because they have a tendency to deflect responsibility: For Foley it is the radical gays that did it etc... .
Church groups and Church counseling CAN help screwed up people. Absolutely. But so can ANY well prepared group or counselor. The act of accepting Jesus has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Never did. Never will. There is no such thing as the Tooth Fairy. There is no such thing as Santa Claus or Vampires or Goblins or Ghosts - Holy or otherwise.
- C

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Achilles,

Not to mince specifics or avoid an issue, but his entire post is a fabulous example of a red herring. We were discussing Quote:

If God inspired the Bible, and truely wants us to obey his will, do you really think he would subjugate Christians to an apparently never-ending scavenger hunt for Biblical truth?

You mean something along the lines of "Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself. . . " Something like this perhaps. .

All of a sudden he goes off on the evil Christianity side topic with out ever addressing the fact the I pointed out exactly what he was asking for.

You claimed (in a nutshell) that Muslims murder and persecute dissenters, which is why there are so few Muslim schools of thought.

I merely pointed out what you failed to consider; that Christians have just as bad a track record as Muslims. Therefore, the number of Bible interpretations as opposed to Koran interpretations obviously has nothing to do with the violence perpetrated by either religion. Another factor (the Bible's utter incoherence) can be blamed for that.

Also, I am not singling out Christians. Every creed of man on the face of the earth (athiest, muslim, hindu, what have you) is guilty of violence. That goes without saying. However, it was you who implied that violence is not an issue in Christian circles. This was an aberration of reality that I simply could not let be.

What is all this talk of red herrings? It was you that started this little side discussion. In addition, if you noticed, the majority of my last post was comprised of material directly related to our central discussion. And yet, for all your complaining of me somehow dragging this discussion off-topic, you have yet to address any of that material.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Samuel,

You quoted the passage about the narrow gate. Let me ask you this do the majority of people care for others and work to help others?

Yes.

The idea that humans are generally evil is an idea unique to the Bible. And, just as most things in the Bible, it is inconsistent with reality.

Human altruism is a trait that humans aquired millions of years ago, and plays a great part in the success of our species. Altruism arose roughly around the time that organized human communities did, and is deemed essential for a community to survive. The oldest example is found in a skeleton of an old toothless man (a few million years old, don't remember exactly). Anthropologists have concluded that once this man reached an age where he was inable to take care of himself, members of his community took it upon themselves to feed and take care of him, enabling to live far beyond his appointed time.

This particular finding is so remarkable that it defies some of the basic tenents of evolution. Most species wouldn't have bothered taking care of an old member of their population, as he no longer had the ability to reproduce, and had no means of serving the species' interests. However, the humans in this example gladly devoted their time and resources to this lowly individual- even though he had absolutely nothing to give back.

This is what being human is truely about. Screw Adam and Eve.

Well I believe and do so. I am a Seventh day Adventist and to us the Bible has a well developed doctrine.

Many people believe this.

However, my point is that these same people, although very secure in their Bible beliefs, all believe in completely different things.

A "well developed" doctrine cannot logically support any more than one or two different interpretations. The Bible leaves room for THOUSANDS.

As you are an intelligent person you should be able to read the Bible and ask questions to find truth.

No intelligent person can see the Bible equate the numbers 22 and 42 and conclude that anything written within can possibly resemble anything that could be considered "truth".