JEALOUSY: A good attribute in a god?

[2Dbunk]

Exodus 20:5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

The above is strong stuff. In a land that cherishes the choices Capitalism has provided us with, and Freedom beyond "free will," we Americans welcome competition. But the Abrahamic God would proscribe that right and, in the face of our Constitution, punish offender's children thru the 3rd and 4th generation. IMO that's a bit harsh for children to suffer for something they had no say or control about. IMO this, alone, points to human authorship of the Bible, as flawed as this command is.

1) Is it necessary for God to be jealous in light of the fact he has given us free will and has access to everything there is anyway?

2) Is it necessary for God to be jealous at all?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 5 by Kenisaw: "
We can't have free will if the god is all knowing as he claims."]

You mean as you claim. HE claims HE knows all of HIS works, that is, that which HE has created which also means that if HE did not create the results of our free will decisions, then HE did not know them and there is NO dichotomy between HIS being all knowing and our free will.

I do expect you to keep harping on the pagan definition of being all knowing because it makes it easy to denigrate the stance of (most) Christians that we have free will but that in itself is not the proof that what you say is reality...my supposition of another logical explanation that is in accord with the bible is enough to prove it is not the only definition at all.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 28 by 1213]

I have understood that it is not good to let unrighteous live forever, because they would turn life eternal suffering. And I believe God is good and righteous. That means, he ends unrighteous life, because it would be bad to allow it to continue forever. Therefore I think the perdition is demand of Gods goodness and righteousness. I believe God hopes all become righteous, but I believe He also wants to remain good and righteous. That means, unrighteous die. It is better than eternal suffering for all, even though I dont believe God wants people to die.

I agree that the scumbags should not live forever (but isn't that what happens if the scumbag confesses his sins at the last moment of life?).

If God doesn't want people to die, why is "He" introducing the Zika virus at this time? Innocently born children (other than their original sin, that is) are born malformed (tiny heads) in Latin American countries and is threatening the southern part of the United States. What is "He" p___ed at now? Scumbags get to live forever (with successful last rites) while little babies are unceremoniously punished with what kind of a future? SOMETHING IS WAY WRONG HERE, if "He's" responsible.

2,000 years have passed since "He" said he would come back soon. Now with Zika hitting the planet, it's about time he came back, don't you think. I'd rather burn in hell knowing I'm innocent of most of the sins "He's" itemized than see children born into a lifetime of horror!
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Islam is ALL that a grate religion can be!

[OnceConvinced]

If we are his bride, his beloved people, would he not want us to be faithful to him?
Imagine if you were married, but had affairs with multiple people, should your spouse not be jealous?

It's not just one bride he's got though. We're talking millions of brides even SAME-SEX brides!

So if a man has millions of wives has he any right to be jealous if a few are unfaithful?

...and why would those few that are unfaithful be any less important than those who are? It is like having children, how can one child be less valuable than anyone else?

You haven't answered my question. Does a man have a right to be jealous of a wife if he has a million of them?

I would say that man has some real audacity and is a real hypocrite to be jealous if one of his million wives has an affair. I would be saying "Get over yourself! You have a million bloody wives. Stop being so greedy and needy. You have no right to be jealous at all when you have a million wives to satisfy you."

He is jealous for us, because he loves us so intensely.

It would make him a hypocrite as he is the one who set the standards for love:

Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4

Actually, that is a very good point! We have a covenant with God, through the blood of Jesus. Now, I am saying that because I want you to know from where I come with this next sentence. It is a bond, as Christ takes us to be His bride, we are to be faithful to Him. What bride cheats on Her husband? Of course He is jealous for us, and well He should be. We are His beloved creation. Love isn't jealous in the sense of being envious over a person, but the union of two people? Absolutely! If we couldn't be jealous over our union with our spouse, there would't be any problem at all with adultery.

But Peds! A MILLION wives! The AUDACITY of being jealous when one has a million wives! No husband has the right to be jealous when he is so greedy and having so many wives. That husband would have to have some serious ego problems if he was.

He is not willing to share us with other images of Gods.

Really, it makes no sense that a perfect being would ever have such petty human emotions such as jealousy. I mean what does it really matter to this god if a few of us worship other gods? Is it really so wounding to his ego?

It is because He knows what is best for us. Would you want your children to go up to other adults and ask them questions concerning how to live, what college to go to, if they should get married, ect..? Parents are invested in their children's lives.

I am human, so therefore I will have petty human insecurities. I will have petty feelings such as jealousy, envy, greed etc. A god should not have the issues because he is a whole and perfect spiritual being. He should never feel threatened by anything, let alone other humans

Anyway, if my child was not getting what they need from me, then yes, I would expect they would go to someone who will give them what they need. I would not expect them to just rely on me.

My girlfriend often looks after a little girl whose father cares little for her. Does not ensure she eats healthy, gets enough sleep, has clean clothes to wear and who is often verbally and sometimes physically abusive. YES indeed she should go to someone else. And she does. My girlfriend. She will often ring her up in tears over neglect from her father.

Would she be better off just remaining with the abusive father and only dealing with him?

Let's face it, jealousy is about ego. It's about "oooh don't you dare share your love with any one else". I just don't see why a god who is so all together and all powerful would ever be upset about someone sharing their love with others. It really does make him seem very human and very vunerable.

So, if your girlfriend cheats on you, it's about your ego? The love that she has for you is special (or I would hope). Do you want her to love people in the exact way she loves you? We must hold sacred, what should be sacred.

We are talking about whether jealousy is a good attribute for a GOD. Not for a human.

I am a HUMAN not a God and she is my only girlfriend. I am not like God who has millions of girlfriends. If I did, I could hardly justify being jealous if she cheats.

He created us, and wants to have a faithful relationship with him, so that he can shower his love upon us, and direct us in the way we should go.

But why would this god who is so all together, complete and perfect ever be concerned with this sort of thing?

This is because He loves us with an everlasting love, it is a love that we cannot even grasp. If we, who are only human, can love and want someone to be faithful to us based on that love, think of God..with even more love...

And even more partners. Millions and millions of partners. Why would he be jealous if one of them goes looking elsewhere? It makes no sense. It can only bother him if he has ego issues. If he has insecurities.

We as humans have insecurities. A god shouldn't.

He doesn't need our faith or our love. He has plenty of other wives he can share is love with. Why get all wrathful and angry about those who don't?

I have plenty of children, why would I get upset if only one of them rejected me as a parent? It matters because he doesn't want anyone to perish. It matters because he sent his son to the cross for all. It matters because he wishes to be separated from no one.

You are a human, not a god. I would expect you to be upset. But God, he is a completely and perfect being without insecurities and without needs.

At some point your child will grow up and leave the nest. You will no longer be in that same parental role you once were. Are you going to be angry and upset about that? Or are you going to be an adult and move on and accept that you are no longer needed in that capacity? That you no longer have any more control over what they do?

If we as humans acted like that, we'd soon find ourselves with nobody to love. Imagine if we said to all our friends and family "You must only love me and nobody else. You must only spend your time with me, not anyone else."

This is the kind of behavior you are defending when it comes to God.

OC, if God says to love Him and love others, then clearly that goes against what you said.

You can't demand love. It doesn't work that way. Love is not a choice. Loving actions, sure, but not the love itself. Loving actions can be faked. Real love can't.

I of course would never demand my children to love me. If they decided that they no longer loved me I would be upset and figuring out what I did wrong, sure. But then I'm not a god. But notice that I would be looking at what IIII did wrong. Not what they did wrong. God however always puts the blame on us.

He wants us to love others, but he also wants us to love Him. If we humans acted as God would have us, based on loving Him and others, we would have no need for police or jails. God loves us...and just as we would not share our spouses, neither does God want to share us.

He's very selfish, isn't he? That ego must be huge. He wants millions of millions of brides. He demands them all to love him with threats of eternal damnation if they don't. Then gets all wrathful if one decides to look elsewhere for love.

[Peds nurse]

If we are his bride, his beloved people, would he not want us to be faithful to him?
Imagine if you were married, but had affairs with multiple people, should your spouse not be jealous?

It's not just one bride he's got though. We're talking millions of brides even SAME-SEX brides!

So if a man has millions of wives has he any right to be jealous if a few are unfaithful?

...and why would those few that are unfaithful be any less important than those who are? It is like having children, how can one child be less valuable than anyone else?

You haven't answered my question. Does a man have a right to be jealous of a wife if he has a million of them?

Good afternoon Mr. OC!! It is your lucky night. (that sounds bad, huh?) I have time to address one post before I lay my head to sleep, and I chose to answer yours. (You can thank me later).

If God was a man, he probably wouldn't miss a couple thousand women. God however, is not a man...He is a God.

I would say that man has some real audacity and is a real hypocrite to be jealous if one of his million wives has an affair. I would be saying "Get over yourself! You have a million bloody wives. Stop being so greedy and needy. You have no right to be jealous at all when you have a million wives to satisfy you."

Well, if a man had a million wives, he would probably be....hospitalized? God doesn't want a relationship with us to satisfy His ego. He wants us to be satisfied...spiritually.

He is jealous for us, because he loves us so intensely.

It would make him a hypocrite as he is the one who set the standards for love:

Love is not jealous - 1 Corinthians 13:4

Actually, that is a very good point! We have a covenant with God, through the blood of Jesus. Now, I am saying that because I want you to know from where I come with this next sentence. It is a bond, as Christ takes us to be His bride, we are to be faithful to Him. What bride cheats on Her husband? Of course He is jealous for us, and well He should be. We are His beloved creation. Love isn't jealous in the sense of being envious over a person, but the union of two people? Absolutely! If we couldn't be jealous over our union with our spouse, there would't be any problem at all with adultery.

But Peds! A MILLION wives! The AUDACITY of being jealous when one has a million wives! No husband has the right to be jealous when he is so greedy and having so many wives. That husband would have to have some serious ego problems if he was.

OC, I wonder, what do you think God is Jealous of? Do you think he just adds us to his harem, trying to get his quota of people up? HE LOVES US. It says in the Bible, that he knew us in our mother's womb. From the very start, we are precious to him.

He is not willing to share us with other images of Gods.

Really, it makes no sense that a perfect being would ever have such petty human emotions such as jealousy. I mean what does it really matter to this god if a few of us worship other gods? Is it really so wounding to his ego?

It is because He knows what is best for us. Would you want your children to go up to other adults and ask them questions concerning how to live, what college to go to, if they should get married, ect..? Parents are invested in their children's lives.

I am human, so therefore I will have petty human insecurities. I will have petty feelings such as jealousy, envy, greed etc. A god should not have the issues because he is a whole and perfect spiritual being. He should never feel threatened by anything, let alone other humans

He doesn't feel threatened, my sweet friend. He isn't running for some God election, and needs our votes. He wants to interact in our lives. He wants His Spirit to dwell with in us. He wants to be our God, and we be His people.

Anyway, if my child was not getting what they need from me, then yes, I would expect they would go to someone who will give them what they need. I would not expect them to just rely on me.

I am not talking about them seeking another adult for questions. I am talking about seeking another adult for what you long to give them. You have your child's best interest at heart, because you are invested in their lives, and have been since the beginning.

My girlfriend often looks after a little girl whose father cares little for her. Does not ensure she eats healthy, gets enough sleep, has clean clothes to wear and who is often verbally and sometimes physically abusive. YES indeed she should go to someone else. And she does. My girlfriend. She will often ring her up in tears over neglect from her father.

I can relate to that. If a parent is stable, loving, kind..ect, with NO other parenting issues, the parent indeed would be jealous of the child asking someone else for what they are capable of giving.

Let's face it, jealousy is about ego. It's about "oooh don't you dare share your love with any one else". I just don't see why a god who is so all together and all powerful would ever be upset about someone sharing their love with others. It really does make him seem very human and very vunerable.

So, if your girlfriend cheats on you, it's about your ego? The love that she has for you is special (or I would hope). Do you want her to love people in the exact way she loves you? We must hold sacred, what should be sacred.

We are talking about whether jealousy is a good attribute for a GOD. Not for a human.

You have just used humans to make your point. Look at your first question. God's love is sacred.

I am a HUMAN not a God and she is my only girlfriend. I am not like God who has millions of girlfriends. If I did, I could hardly justify being jealous if she cheats.

This is where we disagree. Our perspectives are very different. For some reason, I think that you are saying, that because has billions of followers, what's a couple million who don't follow? If that is what you think, than your perspective on God is way different than mine. God holds each of us dear. None are alike, and he knows us all by name. He is God, able to be, know, and has known, everyone who was ever born. He loves us all as his children, yet there are those who choose not to go to him. If we think for a moment that he says, "Oh well, you win some, you lose some," then we are not talking about the same God. To lose one, breaks his heart, just as it did when Lazarus died. Jesus wept. This is why there is great rejoicing in Heaven when one repents, and turns to God. His child, that was lost, came home.

He created us, and wants to have a faithful relationship with him, so that he can shower his love upon us, and direct us in the way we should go.

But why would this god who is so all together, complete and perfect ever be concerned with this sort of thing?

This is because He loves us with an everlasting love, it is a love that we cannot even grasp. If we, who are only human, can love and want someone to be faithful to us based on that love, think of God..with even more love...

And even more partners. Millions and millions of partners. Why would he be jealous if one of them goes looking elsewhere? It makes no sense. It can only bother him if he has ego issues. If he has insecurities.

We as humans have insecurities. A god shouldn't.

No, it isn't about HIS security, it is about ours.

He doesn't need our faith or our love. He has plenty of other wives he can share is love with. Why get all wrathful and angry about those who don't?

I have plenty of children, why would I get upset if only one of them rejected me as a parent? It matters because he doesn't want anyone to perish. It matters because he sent his son to the cross for all. It matters because he wishes to be separated from no one.

You are a human, not a god. I would expect you to be upset. But God, he is a completely and perfect being without insecurities and without needs.

At some point your child will grow up and leave the nest. You will no longer be in that same parental role you once were. Are you going to be angry and upset about that? Or are you going to be an adult and move on and accept that you are no longer needed in that capacity? That you no longer have any more control over what they do?

He doesn't need us...He wants us. Do you know how beautiful that is? I get chills when I think that the God of the universe wants me. He desires my presence.

I cut you short, so if there is something you wanted addressed, but I failed to do it, let me know...pretty please

[OnceConvinced]

Good afternoon Mr. OC!! It is your lucky night. (that sounds bad, huh?) I have time to address one post before I lay my head to sleep, and I chose to answer yours. (You can thank me later).

I shall thank you now!

If God was a man, he probably wouldn't miss a couple thousand women. God however, is not a man...He is a God.

And as such would not miss anyone. He is a god after all. He would not have to deal with such frail human emotions. He is the almighty God! A perfect being. Thus he would never have to experience any painful feelings of loss.

OC, I wonder, what do you think God is Jealous of?

I don't believe a god would be jealous. It's a human frailty, not something that an all powerful and perfect being would have to deal with. If he is a god of love then he can't be a god of jealousy. However if he himself claims to be a jealous God, then there's something extremely contradictory about the whole thing. But I have come to expect that from the bible.

Jealousy is full of negative connotations and I don't believe you can try to twist the world to mean something positive. You would just use different words completely. eg "I am a God who will never let anyone take you from me!" or "I love you so much I will fight for you!"

Definitely not "I am a jealous God punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"

Do you think he just adds us to his harem, trying to get his quota of people up? HE LOVES US. It says in the Bible, that he knew us in our mother's womb. From the very start, we are precious to him.

And just like a mother, once that child grows, moves on and no longer needs to be mothered, you would let that child go with your blessings. You would say something like "You are an adult now and you can do whatever you want. You don't need me, but hey that doesn't mean I'm not here for you. I will always be your mother and I will always care about you. Come and see me whenever you need me. Come and see me even if you don't need me. You will always be welcome".

You would not turn to your child and say "What? You're disowning me? How dare you? I must always be your one and only! You must never abandon me! Because you are forsaking me, I disown you! I am going to make you suffer and I'm going to make your children suffer and their children suffer and THEIR children suffer..."

No you wouldn't because that would show real irrational jealousy and wrath. Not something a loving mother would do.

He is not willing to share us with other images of Gods.

Really, it makes no sense that a perfect being would ever have such petty human emotions such as jealousy. I mean what does it really matter to this god if a few of us worship other gods? Is it really so wounding to his ego?

It is because He knows what is best for us. Would you want your children to go up to other adults and ask them questions concerning how to live, what college to go to, if they should get married, ect..? Parents are invested in their children's lives.

I am human, so therefore I will have petty human insecurities. I will have petty feelings such as jealousy, envy, greed etc. A god should not have the issues because he is a whole and perfect spiritual being. He should never feel threatened by anything, let alone other humans

He doesn't feel threatened, my sweet friend.

He clearly does otherwise he wouldn't have made the commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods but me".

He isn't running for some God election, and needs our votes. He wants to interact in our lives. He wants His Spirit to dwell with in us. He wants to be our God, and we be His people.

Therefore he would not need to be jealous. He would accept it if we were to say "I don't believe in you" or "I think another god would be better for me".

If this god is as loving and as caring as you claim, he would say "Ok, that's fine, it's your decision. If you want to worship some other god go right ahead, I won't be happy, but it's your decision".

But instead God is going to have our descendants punished to the 3rd and 4th generation. And ultimately we'll be cast into Hell.

There's nothing loving about any of that. This is really hardcore angry and wrathful jealousy we're talking about. Completely irrational for a so-called loving god who only wants the best for us.

I am not talking about them seeking another adult for questions. I am talking about seeking another adult for what you long to give them. You have your child's best interest at heart, because you are invested in their lives, and have been since the beginning.

It may be painful for you, but you let go. You allow them to follow their own path. After all, that's what we do with our kids don't we? We don't try to keep them under our thumb for all their lives. We let them go.

Why can't God just do the same? Why does he have to get so jealous and wrathful about it?

I can relate to that. If a parent is stable, loving, kind..ect, with NO other parenting issues, the parent indeed would be jealous of the child asking someone else for what they are capable of giving.

But once they reach a certain age, the parent just has to let go and they have to shelve their jealousy. Those that don't, end up causing all sorts of problems for their children. Domineering parents who won't let their children go are not a good thing. The same would apply to a domineering god who won't let his worshipers go.

Let's face it, jealousy is about ego. It's about "oooh don't you dare share your love with any one else". I just don't see why a god who is so all together and all powerful would ever be upset about someone sharing their love with others. It really does make him seem very human and very vunerable.

So, if your girlfriend cheats on you, it's about your ego? The love that she has for you is special (or I would hope). Do you want her to love people in the exact way she loves you? We must hold sacred, what should be sacred.

We are talking about whether jealousy is a good attribute for a GOD. Not for a human.

You have just used humans to make your point. Look at your first question. God's love is sacred.

Actually that post you just quoted I was talking about God. I've underlined it.

I believe it was you that first came up with the idea of the bride and how we are like God's brides. That is why I tried to bring up the whole thing of a million brides.

It's quite acceptable for humans with their frailties and human nature to be jealous. It's quite another thing for a perfect being. A perfect being should never be able to suffer any feelings of loss otherwise they would not be whole and complete. A god must surely by whole and complete? Without any needs whatsoever.

For some reason, I think that you are saying, that because has billions of followers, what's a couple million who don't follow? If that is what you think, than your perspective on God is way different than mine. God holds each of us dear. None are alike, and he knows us all by name. He is God, able to be, know, and has known, everyone who was ever born. He loves us all as his children, yet there are those who choose not to go to him. If we think for a moment that he says, "Oh well, you win some, you lose some," then we are not talking about the same God.

I guess not. You are talking about a god who gets all jealous and wrathful if he loses a soul. I would see god as someone a lot more together who is in control of his emotions. A being who would be willing to let go of his loved ones. Not clasps hold of them jealously, unwilling to let them go. This God you are talking about does not seem to be a very healthy individual. He seems rather obsessive and selfish.

To lose one, breaks his heart,

God has a heart?

Even if he did... if this heart can be broken, then God is very frail, much like humans. I don't believe a god would be that frail and weak. I guess that is another difference between the god I envisage and the one you envisage. Your god has human frailties and can't handle anyone abandoning him. My god would be willing to accept the situation and let the loved one move on. He would remain strong and not crumble. After all he is a true god.

just as it did when Lazarus died. Jesus wept.

Jesus was in a human body. So he had the same human frailties. However in Heaven there will be no more tears. There is a new body. Jesus will be in that new body and there will be no more tears. Thus Jesus would not be suffering at all if you decided to abandon him. In fact I would think that Jesus would accept the situation and move on. At least I hope he would. I hope he wouldn't get all stroppy about it. Especially being the son of God!

This is why there is great rejoicing in Heaven when one repents, and turns to God. His child, that was lost, came home.

Just like a parent. If their child leaves and says "I know longer need you". And the child returns the parent would rejoice. However if that child didn't return the parent would probably move on. One thing they wouldn't be doing was holding a grudge and preparing to punish all his offspring if he doesn't return.

He created us, and wants to have a faithful relationship with him, so that he can shower his love upon us, and direct us in the way we should go.

But why would this god who is so all together, complete and perfect ever be concerned with this sort of thing?

This is because He loves us with an everlasting love, it is a love that we cannot even grasp. If we, who are only human, can love and want someone to be faithful to us based on that love, think of God..with even more love...

And even more partners. Millions and millions of partners. Why would he be jealous if one of them goes looking elsewhere? It makes no sense. It can only bother him if he has ego issues. If he has insecurities.

We as humans have insecurities. A god shouldn't.

No, it isn't about HIS security, it is about ours.

You are talking about a different type of security. I'm talking about insecurities. A completely different thing.

I'm sorry, but if God grieves, or is jealous, or angry, or wrathful... if he can't handle losing you, then those are HIS insecurities. Not ours.

He doesn't need our faith or our love. He has plenty of other wives he can share is love with. Why get all wrathful and angry about those who don't?

I have plenty of children, why would I get upset if only one of them rejected me as a parent? It matters because he doesn't want anyone to perish. It matters because he sent his son to the cross for all. It matters because he wishes to be separated from no one.

You are a human, not a god. I would expect you to be upset. But God, he is a completely and perfect being without insecurities and without needs.

At some point your child will grow up and leave the nest. You will no longer be in that same parental role you once were. Are you going to be angry and upset about that? Or are you going to be an adult and move on and accept that you are no longer needed in that capacity? That you no longer have any more control over what they do?

He doesn't need us...He wants us.

That's why I said that a god would never be needy. However the god you are describing appears to be very needy. He is unable to let go.

You don't always get what you want. Most of us can handle not getting what we want. God on the other hand seems to get all wrathful if he doesn't get what he wants. He says "Oh I'm going to punish your descendants for this!"

But this is more about what the human wants. If we don't feel we need this god, then we should be able to move on. There should be no need for God to get all uppity about it. Just as we as a parent shouldn't get all uppity because our child wants to leave the nest.

Do you know how beautiful that is? I get chills when I think that the God of the universe wants me. He desires my presence.

I used to see it as beautiful until I took off the rose-colored Christian glasses. That's when I began to see just how ugly it all was. He doesn't just desire your presence Peds. He DEMANDS it. And if he doesn't get it, then you are going to suffer his wrath. He's going to punish your children and your children's children and right down to the 3rd and 4th generation!! Is that in any way beautiful?

I cut you short, so if there is something you wanted addressed, but I failed to do it, let me know...pretty please

I know your time is short and don't have time to respond to everything (I should be employing the same rule). I figure you would have address the things you felt most strongly about and the ones you felt you were able to debate.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 34 by Peds nurse]

Another nice day, isn't it (hope your not getting hammered with the terrible storm ravaging the south and Midwest). However, I'm feeling slighted that you haven't answered my post #29 (which answered your Post #12 & #24. I reiterate below:

[Replying to Peds nurse post #12 & post #24]


Quote:


PN wrote ( Post #12)

I see God in nature. I suppose, the difference is what we are tuned in to. I am tuned into God's spirit. When I see a flower, I think of it's beautiful color, and the splendor of its beauty. This takes me to a verse where it tells us to not worry. If God clothes the flowers in such beauty, will he not meet our needs as well? So, I say a thank you to God, for his provisions in my life.

2Dbunk answered:

Being a nurse, you took biology, right? Many of these things that appear beautiful can pretty much be explained in photosynthesis, soil condition, rainwater, fertilizer or lack thereof. If a god is the provider of these things for our benefit, why would he provide equally beautiful things where there are no people? Coral reefs far away from people; colorful flora and fauna at depths that humans cannot survive? These are not provided for just our benefit; they are part of this planet's biosphere that relies so much on the warmth of the Sun. These things can be enjoyed without the self-centeredness (Him speaking directly to each one of us) like you experinced.


PN wrote
:
He speaks to me through everyday things, situations, and people. Once I remember walking, and I asked God to give me a glimpse of how much he loves his people. I was so overwhelmed with love, but for a brief second, that I couldn't even breathe. It brought me to my knees.

2Dbunk answered:

You have the makings to be a shaman! No kidding, reading in World Religions, shaman is described as one exhibiting extraordinary recognition of Spirits. How many do you know that experience similar conditions? Not very many I bet. You may be gifted in bringing on delusions of euphoria psychologically. Of course, I'm only guessing. But people do enhance sincere personal beliefs all the time -- we all do.


PN wrote:

My daughter is a nature person...not really a God person. I told her that we can find God in nature, and we take him with us when we leave. If it is just nature, we leave it there, to visit again.

2Dbunk answered:

Evidently shamanism isn't an inherited trait in your situation. Sure we can take a natural scene with us . . . in our memory or in a photograph.


Quote:

PN wrote ( Post #24):

He created us, and wants to have a faithful relationship with him, so that he can shower his love upon us, and direct us in the way we should go.

OC wrote:
But why would this god who is so all together, complete and perfect ever be concerned with this sort of thing?

PN wrote:

This is because He loves us with an everlasting love, it is a love that we cannot even grasp. If we, who are only human, can love and want someone to be faithful to us based on that love, think of God..with even more love. He wants and desires to be a part of our lives.

OC wrote:
He doesn't need our faith or our love. He has plenty of other wives he can share is love with. Why get all wrathful and angry about those who don't?

2Dbunk answers:

I agree with OC. It sounds like your god is a child that hasn't grown up: ". . . play my way or I'm taking my ball and going home," if it were so innocuous -- instead he blasts: ". . . DO IT MY WAY OR YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY." That sounds pretty psychotic to me. I certainly don't see any love in his intentions (they really are a form of blackmail). The message of love is on condition of a threat that is hardly veiled!


PN wrote:

I have plenty of children, why would I get upset if only one of them rejected me as a parent? It matters because he doesn't want anyone to perish. It matters because he sent his son to the cross for all. It matters because he wishes to be separated from no one.

2Dbunk answers:

Why does anybody have to perish? "He" has put an additional burden on us to "love Him" -- for what? We didn't ask "Him" to be born (in whatever situation we found ourselves born into). That is so brutish for "Him" to threaten us -- why can't "He" just leave us alone to find our own way to a better life? I know I did -- it's such a rush to know that one can lift oneself by their own bootstraps and make a successful life!

I would never wish for someone to perish (other than some politicians that want to have there way with me). That's why I say God doesn't exist -- how can I have more empathy than a god?

Maybe you didn't answer because these are tough questions. If you choose not to answer, I'll take that as a consession.

[1213]

I agree that the scumbags should not live forever (but isn't that what happens if the scumbag confesses his sins at the last moment of life?).

According to the Bible, eternal life is for righteous. Forgiveness is not useful, if person doesnt repent and become righteous. And if one becomes righteous, he is not anymore scumbag.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

If God doesn't want people to die, why is "He" introducing the Zika virus at this time?

Hmmm by what I know, Zika virus is property of Rockefeller foundation.

Of significance, the Zika virus is a commodity which can be purchased online from the ATCC-LGC for 599 euros, with royalties accruing to the Rockefeller Foundation.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-owns-t ... us/5505323

Perhaps it is not Gods fault this time.

But anyway, in Biblical point of view, our earthly bodies are not meant to last forever. The soul is the important thing and it can live even if body dies, if we believe what the Bible tells. Murder is wrong, but death is not something that should be feared.

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it. For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?
Matt. 16:25-26

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28-31

[H.sapiens]

How can one be jealous and omnipotent at the same time. If you know what is going to happen, jealousy is idiotic and morbidly petulant.

[ttruscott]

The problem only arises with the English word, jealousy. Immediately those who do not know GOD think of sexual and love jealousy and freewill which puts them off track.

The kind of jealousy that is used to GOD is not love or sexual jealousy but is the jealousy that is best described in this scenario...

Imagine yourself as a quintessential Father, doting and protective. And then your 13 year old daughter comes home telling you that "you are an old fashioned fat head and her boyfriend who has (fill in the cultural expression of criminal rebellion of your choice) is at least honest about his affiliations. Besides, criminal activity is sometimes necessary when you are oppressed by society and cannot buy your own special brand of medicine! So what if he is 22, he loves me!"

What loving Father would not take a stand against this false friend who is obviously manipulating her to his selfish ends? Sure go ahead and make up a new scenario that speaks against the conclusions of my scenario but if you ever find yourself in my scenario and IF the daughter is seduced more and more into his criminal life style, you may find yourself making dumb-butt statements like, "Because I am your Father!!" Even if you know that will aggravate the realtionship AND you just may start thinking of murder as a possibility if it gets bad enough.

The father who thinks of murder when an immature family member is being stolen away from the family by seduction is natural and is expressed exactly by the word jealous...jealous of his prerogatives and status as the loving Father who is to be her protector from such villains at least until she can make up her own mind as an intellectually and emotionally mature person.

So blather on about what your wife might want and all you want is her happiness and put those words on your 12 year old son belong seduced into a gang because they understand me! and then tell me if that is what he wants, well, then his happiness is all you want.

[ttruscott]

How can one be jealous and omnipotent at the same time. If you know what is going to happen, jealousy is idiotic and morbidly petulant.

Of course HE knows how bad it is going to get for us if we follow the false gods and how much suffering we will both get and cause, but we do not know this!!! It is a characteristic of the immature that we do not understand the ramififications and outcomes of of our emotionally driven desires because we know we are so superior in our intellect and reasoning abilities because Dad is obviously outdated and such a loser.

And when we demand the right to go our own way and give HIM the proverbial finger, is it not proper for HIM to remind us, "I AM YOUR FATHER and I am emotionally involved with your bad decisions and until you mature so you can fight this seduction on your own, MY WILL IS SACROSANCT and I will not allow any other to seduce you to be under his control except over my dead body!???