Does Jesus speak Greek?

[JoeyKnothead]

I've heard it on more'n one occassion that English language bibles are faulty, 'cause they ain't written in the "original" Greek.

Which leads me to ask for debate:


Did Jesus speak Greek?

If English translations of Greek are faulty, ain't Greek translations of Jesus' Aramaic faulty?

If a translation is faulty, should it be relied upon to make life impacting decisions?

[JLB32168]

Did Jesus speak Greek?

Christs and the Apostles quotes more often come from the LXX version of the OT than from the Hebrew. The sign above his cross was written in Aramaic, Greek, and Latin when conceivably the only people whod be interested would be Jews. The priests of the temple were Hellenophiles " something that irritated many Jews. Christ was apparently speaking w/them at the age of twelve. The language of the Eastern Empire was Greek. Christ traveled through the Decapolis (ten towns) quite easily. He grew up on the edge of Judaea. He spoke to Roman citizens quite easily and w/o the need of an interpreter. When he said, My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me he quoted a Hebrew text, which would require knowledge of Hebrew, which would suggest education since Hebrew was no longer the lingua franca but was strictly a liturgical language. He presumably resided in Egypt with his parents for a time when he was young. His name is recorded as Iesous rather than Joshua. Judea had been occupied for two centuries by Greece before Christ was born. His word play with Nicodemus (a Greek name and not Hebrew/Aramaic) requires Greek words or it makes no sense.

I would submit he was bilingual " most likely preferring Greek given the amount of time he was in Jerusalem, which was a cosmopolitan city.

[catnip]

I've heard it on more'n one occassion that English language bibles are faulty, 'cause they ain't written in the "original" Greek.

Which leads me to ask for debate:


Did Jesus speak Greek?

If English translations of Greek are faulty, ain't Greek translations of Jesus' Aramaic faulty?

If a translation is faulty, should it be relied upon to make life impacting decisions?

You ask two questions. When I was involved in Historical Jesus debates, I did a lot of research into Jesus' possible life in Galilee in the 1st Century (a Jew living in Galilee, actually) and it is highly likely that he did speak Greek. If his father was a "carpenter" his employment was most likely provided by the Romans. (Note that evidence for an occupied town in the location of Nazareth in the early 1st Century is unlikely as it was destroyed by the Assyrians in the second century, BCE.) At any rate, he most likely spoke the common language to the Jews which would have been Aramaic even if he did know Greek and was even fluent in it. Note that two of the Apostles have Greek names. Someday, when biblical researchers become more objective, they may agree with me. lol

I meant to say that proofs would include the fact that Jesus taught in and around the Sea of Galilee in the vicinity of Capernaum, a member city of the Decapolis in the southeastern Levant.

It is true, and I have heard Bart Ehrman say that they lose something in translation. He apparently amuses himself by attempting to translate sayings of Jesus back to Aramaic to see how likely it is that Jesus said them.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 3 by catnip]

If we are to believe the best references, which are anecdotal, Jesus spoke Aramaic and some Latin and invariably some Greek, but used his disciples to understand Greek.

He was able to speak with Pilate and Romans in Mathew. It is unlikely they spoke much Aramaic. So, I am afraid, Hebrew,* whatever that is, is not part of the equation.

I am afraid the entire question is somewhat moot: Jews and Christians have had 2000+ years of translating and re-writing the Bible as it suites them.

* Hebrew is just bastardized Phonetician, almost identically the language of Canaan. You can discover much about the meaning of "Hebrew" translations, by translating them from Canaan. For example, Uriel "The light of God," means God of Ur in Canaan.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 2:

Christs and the Apostles quotes more often come from the LXX version of the OT than from the Hebrew.

That just adds on another layer of translation.

The sign above his cross was written in Aramaic, Greek, and Latin when conceivably the only people whod be interested would be Jews. The priests of the temple were Hellenophiles " something that irritated many Jews. Christ was apparently speaking w/them at the age of twelve. The language of the Eastern Empire was Greek.

Yet more translations.

Did Jesus make accurate translations? How can we tell?

I ask that as we note we have none of his writings, but are left with the words (translations and interpretations) of those who came after.

Christ traveled through the Decapolis (ten towns) quite easily. He grew up on the edge of Judaea. He spoke to Roman citizens quite easily and w/o the need of an interpreter. When he said, My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me he quoted a Hebrew text, which would require knowledge of Hebrew, which would suggest education since Hebrew was no longer the lingua franca but was strictly a liturgical language.

So, we've got Hebrew translated by a native Aramaic speaker, translated into Greek. Correct?

He presumably resided in Egypt with his parents for a time when he was young. His name is recorded as Iesous rather than Joshua. Judea had been occupied for two centuries by Greece before Christ was born. His word play with Nicodemus (a Greek name and not Hebrew/Aramaic) requires Greek words or it makes no sense.

So, a native Aramaic speaker must have his words translated into Greek, just to make some sense of 'em.

That's kinda backwards, don'cha think?

I would submit he was bilingual " most likely preferring Greek given the amount of time he was in Jerusalem, which was a cosmopolitan city.

Your notion here goes against a lot of scholarship that says Jesus spoke Aramaic, and relies, by your own admittance, on an "apparently", which is not an objective term.

We're still left with Jesus doing the translating - and that's if we can even confirm those who wrote about him later accurately recorded his translations.

I just don't see anything in your post that offers some means to get around the issue - translations are often claimed to be faulty, and often claimed to be such by folks who themselves accept translations of translations of translation.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 3:

You ask two questions.

Naw, I asked three of 'em, if we count up all the question marks in the OP.

You seem to wanna answer the first two, while leaving the third'n be, which is your right.

When I was involved in Historical Jesus debates, I did a lot of research into Jesus' possible life in Galilee in the 1st Century (a Jew living in Galilee, actually) and it is highly likely that he did speak Greek. If his father was a "carpenter" his employment was most likely provided by the Romans. (Note that evidence for an occupied town in the location of Nazareth in the early 1st Century is unlikely as it was destroyed by the Assyrians in the second century, BCE.)

If evidence for is unlikely, then yours can only be supported as speculation.

the common language to the Jews which would have been Aramaic even if he did know Greek and was even fluent in it.

Which means that if he spoke Greek at all (per his employment above), he was not a native speaker, and would ostensibly be translating his thoughts into a foreign tongue. When I sprecken the bitte deutch it is ich can, I get it all fouled up.

Note that two of the Apostles have Greek names. Someday, when biblical researchers become more objective, they may agree with me. lol

I'm just not seeing any objective evidence in nothing you've said yet could ya point it out for me?

I meant to say that proofs would include the fact that Jesus taught in and around the Sea of Galilee in the vicinity of Capernaum, a member city of the Decapolis in the southeastern Levant.

Our problem here is finding more'n one source for this data.

It is true, and I have heard Bart Ehrman say that they lose something in translation.

So we ask if any translation, whether Jesus' own, or those of others should be relied upon when making life-affecting decisions.

He apparently amuses himself by attempting to translate sayings of Jesus back to Aramaic to see how likely it is that Jesus said them.

The ol' recursive translation trick. Often good for laughs.

[Inigo Montoya]

Well. He is The Jesus after all . I imagine he speaks all languages, including Snooti and Igboo. Wouldn't be much of a one-third full god half man if he needed translators to order a burrito, would he?

[catnip]

[Replying to post 3 by catnip]

If we are to believe the best references, which are anecdotal, Jesus spoke Aramaic and some Latin and invariably some Greek, but used his disciples to understand Greek.

He was able to speak with Pilate and Romans in Mathew. It is unlikely they spoke much Aramaic. So, I am afraid, Hebrew,* whatever that is, is not part of the equation.

I am afraid the entire question is somewhat moot: Jews and Christians have had 2000+ years of translating and re-writing the Bible as it suites them.

* Hebrew is just bastardized Phonetician, almost identically the language of Canaan. You can discover much about the meaning of "Hebrew" translations, by translating them from Canaan. For example, Uriel "The light of God," means God of Ur in Canaan.

You will have to go debate with Erhman and other biblical scholars as far as whether Jesus spoke Greek or not because I just said that I think he did. But I am also certain that in teaching Jews he spoke Aramaic. (Did you read what I wrote?)

Yes, of course, the Hebrews could not have suddenly been transported to the Holy Land from outer-space. They speak a language that is closely related to others that lived in and around the same part of their world. Arabs are Semites, too. Abraham came from Ur, in Iraq. Yahweh is a member of the Canaanite pantheon. And on and on.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 8 by catnip]

He'd have to be born under a rock not to know some Greek. But his Greek was poor, and he relied on Paul and probably others.

Evidently, I stand corrected on his Hebrew.

If we believe anything about a man who was more likely the subversive propaganda of a pagan nation, then he was a real demi-god.

Again, you have the rest of us at a disadvantage discussing with you. You seem to reject the majority of Judeo-Christianity, yet expect us to discuss those views as if they were Christian.

[catnip]

From Post 3:

You ask two questions.

Naw, I asked three of 'em, if we count up all the question marks in the OP.

You seem to wanna answer the first two, while leaving the third'n be, which is your right.

Some questions are rhetorical and that is how I took your third question.

When I was involved in Historical Jesus debates, I did a lot of research into Jesus' possible life in Galilee in the 1st Century (a Jew living in Galilee, actually) and it is highly likely that he did speak Greek. If his father was a "carpenter" his employment was most likely provided by the Romans. (Note that evidence for an occupied town in the location of Nazareth in the early 1st Century is unlikely as it was destroyed by the Assyrians in the second century, BCE.)

If evidence for is unlikely, then yours can only be supported as speculation.

The evidence is not at all unlikely. I can't figure out how biblical scholars can make such a claim. JLB just included a lot of proofs that I do agree with from the scriptures themselves. But it can discerned by the composition of the population in the region at the time. The Greeks had been there for three-hundred years. The only very early grave-sites found in Nazereth dating from the 1st Century were all Greek. Etc. I had a long list of proofs.

Why is it important to you in particular? What does it prove to you?

the common language to the Jews which would have been Aramaic even if he did know Greek and was even fluent in it.

Which means that if he spoke Greek at all (per his employment above), he was not a native speaker, and would ostensibly be translating his thoughts into a foreign tongue. When I sprecken the bitte deutch it is ich can, I get it all fouled up.

Not if he learned it in early childhood.

What does this have to do with translating the Bible, however? See, I don't see it as being related. Jesus didn't interpret the Bible for publication.

Note that two of the Apostles have Greek names. Someday, when biblical researchers become more objective, they may agree with me. lol

I'm just not seeing any objective evidence in nothing you've said yet could ya point it out for me?

I stated several facts. Perhaps you should reread it instead of making me repeat myself. It has been more than a decade since I did the research and my notes are long gone as well as the books that I used.

I meant to say that proofs would include the fact that Jesus taught in and around the Sea of Galilee in the vicinity of Capernaum, a member city of the Decapolis in the southeastern Levant.

Our problem here is finding more'n one source for this data.

The New Testament does not claim he spoke Greek. Nor does it say he didn't. The sources to make an educated guess are found outside of scripture as far as the likelihood that Jews in the region of Galilee at the time spoke Greek.

It is true, and I have heard Bart Ehrman say that they lose something in translation.

So we ask if any translation, whether Jesus' own, or those of others should be relied upon when making life-affecting decisions.

I think I am getting the gist of what you are trying to claim. IF Jesus spoke Greek, the things he said that don't translate well to Aramaic, might still have been said by him. But it may also be true that later writers writing in Greek summed up what Jesus said in Greek. Either way, the source may still have been Jesus himself.

He apparently amuses himself by attempting to translate sayings of Jesus back to Aramaic to see how likely it is that Jesus said them.

The ol' recursive translation trick. Often good for laughs.

Yes, he laughs at himself quite often for using it. Most of us know that idioms do not translate well.