Isaiah 43.11

[Elijah John]

From the New World translation of the Bible.

I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.

Question in light of this verse, (especially for Jehovah's Witnesses.)..If Jesus is not YHVH, how can he be the Savior?

[tigger2]

Is. 43:11 - I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour. - ASV.

Jehovah, the Father, the only true God, says he is the only saviour (yasha, Hebrew and soter, Greek)!

But is saviour really an exclusive title for Jehovah, or can it properly be applied to other individuals?

If Jehovah is insisting that no one but himself is ever to be called saviour, then He and His inspired Bible writers would never call anyone else by that exclusive title.

So, when we read that Othniel (Judges 3:9) and Ehud (Judges 3:15) are both called saviour (same Hebrew word translated saviour at Is. 43:11 is translated deliverer in KJV - compare ASV), should we really believe they are both Jehovah because besides [Jehovah] there is no saviour? If so, we have a new trinity: The Father, Ehud, and Othniel!!

Trinitarians should be interested in Obadiah 21 also. There they can prove that all those saviours are Jehovah. Furthermore, they might prove that those saviours are Christians who, therefore, will all be Jehovah! For example, if Jehovah alone is saviour, and Jesus is saviour because he saves (Greek: sosei - Matt. 1:21 and soso - John 12:47) men, then Jesus must be God. By this same reasoning, since some followers of Jesus also save (Greek: sosei - James 5:20; 1 Tim. 4:16 and soso - 1 Cor. 9:22) men, then they (the saviours of Obadiah 21?) too, must be God!

We should realize that Jehovah, as the only Almighty and Most High God, is the ultimate Saviour and the only origin of salvation, and, in that sense, and by comparison, there are no others.

However, it is obvious that other individuals can be, and are, saviours in a subordinate sense, if Jehovah so wills it. That means, then, that Jehovah is the only ultimate saviour (or the only ultimate source of salvation), and, in the cases of Ehud and Othniel, for example, Jehovah was saviour through them.

From my Blog study of the Title Confusion Trick:

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.co ... ick.html

[onewithhim]

From the New World translation of the Bible.

I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.

Question in light of this verse, (especially for Jehovah's Witnesses.)..If Jesus is not YHVH, how can he be the Savior?

Because Jesus is the means by which Jehovah saves.

[Elijah John]

From the New World translation of the Bible.

I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.

Question in light of this verse, (especially for Jehovah's Witnesses.)..If Jesus is not YHVH, how can he be the Savior?

Because Jesus is the means by which Jehovah saves.

So then, is Jesus mislabeled "Savior"?

Notice, as a practical matter, folks who call Jesus "Savior" (mostly Trinitarians) seldom give YHVH the same respect and honor of calling HIM Savior.

I don't think even JW's who honor YHVH by name, call Him "Savior" but you would know better than I, so I sure don't mind correction here.

But it is ironic, since the Isaiah verse clearly states that only YHVH is Savior.

[onewithhim]

From the New World translation of the Bible.

I-I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.

Question in light of this verse, (especially for Jehovah's Witnesses.)..If Jesus is not YHVH, how can he be the Savior?

Because Jesus is the means by which Jehovah saves.

So then, is Jesus mislabeled "Savior"?

Notice, as a practical matter, folks who call Jesus "Savior" (mostly Trinitarians) seldom give YHVH the same respect and honor of calling HIM Savior.

I don't think even JW's who honor YHVH by name, call Him "Savior" but you would know better than I, so I sure don't mind correction here.

But it is ironic, since the Isaiah verse clearly states that only YHVH is Savior.

It is true that trinitarians don't give Jehovah any kind of respect. But it is still true that Jesus is our Savior, because Jehovah ASSIGNED the task to him. Jehovah is still the SOURCE of that salvation. He told Jesus what to do. So Jehovah is THE Savior---the originator of salvation. He said to Jesus, "Go and save the world for me!" So Jesus did. They BOTH can be called "Savior," Jehovah because he is responsible for the plan and he also has the authority and power to cause anything to happen; and Jesus because he actually carried out Jehovah's plan.

To me it's like a father and son standing on their porch and across the street a little girl is being attacked by a dog. She screams, "Save me!" The boy looks at his father to see his reaction, and the father says, "Go, son! Save that girl!" So the boy goes and drives off the dog, saving the girl. Who was ultimately responsible for the girl's salvation? Wasn't it the father who SENT the son across the street? Yet the son could be called the savior also because he was the MEANS of Jehovah's salvation.

[pshun2404]

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Thus no "a god"

43:11 I, even I, am YHVH; and besides me there is no Savior.

[Elijah John]

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Thus no "a god"

43:11 I, even I, am YHVH; and besides me there is no Savior.

So this confirms, that Jesus is not God, only YHVH is God. That is the clear implication of Is 43.10. And the clear implication of Is 43.11 is that neither is Jesus the Savior. YHVH alone is God, YHVH alone is the Savior.

And if YHVH is God and Savior as the verses clearly state, then YHVH saves for his own sake, for His name's sake:

"For your name's sake, O YHVH, pardon my guilt, for it is great". (Psalm 25.11)

"Help us O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name, deliver us and forgive our sins for your name's sake." (Psalm 79.9)

And this is another clincher:

"I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins."

For YHVH's ownsake, YHVH forgives for his own sake, not for anyone else's, including Jesus.

If Jesus blood saves', so too does the blood of animals prior to Jesus. Does that make those animals "Saviors"?...I don't think so.

[pshun2404]

So this confirms, that Jesus is not God, only YHVH is God. That is the clear implication of Is 43.10. And the clear implication of Is 43.11 is that neither is Jesus the Savior. YHVH alone is God, YHVH alone is the Savior.

Wrong! It confirms that YHVH became Jesus.

For YHVH's own sake, YHVH forgives for his own sake, not for anyone else's

Correct and Jesus is YHVH manifest in the flesh. This time via the incarnation.

[onewithhim]

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Thus no "a god"

43:11 I, even I, am YHVH; and besides me there is no Savior.

Will you please read what I wrote? I explained how Jehovah and Jesus can both be a Savior. And, really, what does your comment have to do with my post?

[onewithhim]

So this confirms, that Jesus is not God, only YHVH is God. That is the clear implication of Is 43.10. And the clear implication of Is 43.11 is that neither is Jesus the Savior. YHVH alone is God, YHVH alone is the Savior.

Wrong! It confirms that YHVH became Jesus.

For YHVH's own sake, YHVH forgives for his own sake, not for anyone else's

Correct and Jesus is YHVH manifest in the flesh. This time via the incarnation.

Jehovah did not become Jesus. They are two different individuals, unless Jehovah was talking to himself at Psalm 110:1 and he anointed himself at Isaiah 61:1.....and he prayed to himself all through the New Testament, and he played a ventriloquist at his baptism when Jehovah's voice was heard from heaven. Can you explain?

"The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: Sit at my right hand [is Jehovah going to sit at his own right hand?], Till I make thine enemies thy footstool." (Psalm 110:1, Young's Literal Translation)

"The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on me, because Jehovah did anoint me [Jehovah anointed himself?] to proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me [Jehovah sent himself?] to bind the broken of heart, to proclaim to captives liberty..." (Isaiah 61:1, Young's Literal Translation; see also Luke 4:18,19)


I'm waiting with anticipation.