YAHWEH creates evil, then drowns creation for it!

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

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"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil, I the LORD do all these things." ( Isaiah 45:7)

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)

The reason that the Hebrew Christian Yahweh god, of which is one of many gods in the Before Common Era, decides to drown the entire world accept Noah and family, is because his creation are evil and unworthy of existence (Genesis 6:5). The irony is that Yahweh created evil in the first place as shown above in the passages in question. Yahweh is also omniscient (1 John 3:20) , therefore he knew his creation would falter and he would have to kill them, therefore Christians and Jews worship a god that is Schizophrenic!

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. The LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them." (Genesis 6:5-7)

Christians, can an innocent zygote or fetus ever be evil enough where they need to be destroyed within their mothers womb in the Great Flood, as your Yahweh caused abortions in this instance? Can an innocent baby really be evil where they need to die a horrible death by hopelessly treading water in Yahwehs flood for hours as they cry out in horror to their mothers; as their muscles burned due to large amounts of lactic acid production. Where once they finally give up, they went under, and held their breaths, where acidic carbon dioxide eroded their lungs until the unbearable pain forced them to inhale where there was no air for them to breathe. All the while, the ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god is watching.

Then the water brought into their little lungs robbed their little bodies of oxygen, causing them to go numb. As water violently rushed in and out of their little chests, it finally laid their heavily breathing and slowly dying bodies to the bottom of the ocean as the inhaled water caused their lungs to tear and bleed profusely. All the while, the ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god is watching.

As their blood supply dwindled, their innocent hearts slowly came to a halt. Even so, their brains continued to process information for another couple of minutes. They were patently aware that death was imminent, yet they could do nothing to prevent it. We can only imagine that their final thoughts would have been on what they did to deserve such horrific treatment and death. All the while, the ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god is watching.


When Christians understand why you dismiss all the other gods in the Before Common Era, then you will understand why I dismiss yours.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by 21stCenturyIconoclast]

This was covered with 972 posts in The Flood Myth - The Greatest Evil at
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=28198

Assuming the myth of the flood as recorded in Genesis is accurate history, it is the greatest single evil act recorded in the history of man. It also is evidence the alleged god who perpetrated this evil makes mistakes, contradicts himself, and is capricious.
Consider that shortly after pronouncing all of his creation "good" he repents and calls the whole thing evil and decides to destroy all of it; man and all the other animals [except, presumably, marine life]. Then he changes his mind again and decides He'll just wipe out everything and everyone except a single family to represent each species.

Why he saved the death stalker scorpion, mosquitoes, the box jellyfish, the black widow spider, the poison dart frog, blue ring octopus, and Clostridium Botulinum is beyond me, except that it puts the lie to the idea he was trying to get rid of evil.

It's obvious the story of the flood is pure mythology, but even then, what is its purpose? To show man how evil and corrupt he'd become? The God of this myth certainly does not set a good example. It would be interesting to see if there is a new perspective.

[Danmark]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil, I the LORD do all these things." ( Isaiah 45:7)

I think youre interpreting this a little too literally. How does one create darkness? Its the absence of light. How do you create an absence? I think the intent of the passage is metaphorical " as in I can do all I want as it pertains to man.

Indeed it is, as are most of the Bible stories, including the one this thread speaks to most directly, the flood myth, which if taken literally confirms this 'god' is the most prolific killer in history.

[Danmark]

When all else fails, find the metaphor. One creates darkness by extinguishing light. One creates light by extinguishing darkness.

The point is that one cannot create darkness. One cannot create evil because it isnt a thing. If I decide to do something evil it isnt because God made me. I did it of my own volition.

That is why God cannot create good or evil.

Certainly God can create darkness. He said he did. He can do anything. He can create darkness by removing all sources of light, or obscuring them. Even I can create darkness. Not sure I can 'create' light, but I can and have created darkness. I generally call it 'shade,' and use an awning or an umbrella. I can also make a box into which no light can enter.

At any rate, it does not follow that EVEN IF God could not create darkness, he could not create evil. He does and he has, just like he said he did. The flood that killed all animal life, save one family of each species one example of his incredible evil.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Not everything attributed to YHVH originates with YHVH. The flood tale is an example of some "dung" in the Bible.

Unless it can be read somehow as a myth of renewal and regeneration.

And you are fully qualified to discern the dung from the diamonds? Why exactly did God allow dung to be mixed in with His diamonds in the first place? One would think a Supreme Being would be more attentive. On the other hand, this massive flaw in the system would allow us reasonable cause to file appeals when the time comes.

[marco]

That is why God cannot create good or evil.

Clever play with abstract nouns, JLB. Here is Genesis.

"And God said: Let there be light, and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good." Thus what was made was, in God's judgment, good. He continued to make things and saw each one as good. If we look around at every good thing we can reasonably say that God made all that is good. We can likewise say that God made all that is bad, for surely Cain, the murderer, was bad, and an earthquake that kills is bad.

I let my dog loose and it bites someone. I am responsible. God introduces psychopaths and they kill. God is the inventor.
So saying that God cannot create abstract nouns perhaps gets you over a grammatical hurdle but when we talk of good and bad things that God has made, we must allow that he has responsibility.

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

JLB,

Is it terrible for me to love watching the Christian apologist create yet another spin on disturbing passages like you're doing within this thread? I always like to keep up with the latest apologetics on certain biblical topics.

If you really want to have fun, lets create a thread regarding Noah's Ark, which is part and parcel to your ever loving and forgiving Yahweh god killing his creation.

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

The "spin doctoring" has begun! Incredible how Christians love to rewrite their Yahweh's word to be acceptable to todays acceptances and morals.

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil, I the LORD do all these things." ( Isaiah 45:7)

I think youre interpreting this a little too literally. How does one create darkness? Its the absence of light. How do you create an absence? I think the intent of the passage is metaphorical " as in I can do all I want as it pertains to man.

How does one create good or evil? They are merely concepts used to describe actions. God doesnt create good running. He creates people. They run. They can run well. God created them. He didnt create their actions.

Was there a purpose to this thread other than to say "I reject your deity as you reject all others."

My response is "Okay."

JLB32168,

I am interpreting the verse in question a little too literally? Huh? Have you ever thought that a LITERAL verse does not have to be interpreted at all? The irony is that those damn disturbing passages that get in the way of what you want the bible to say are always needing apologetic interpretation. The passages that you accept as okay, never need interpretation whatsoever. Funny, isn't it? Tell us, where do you gets the authority to know more than Yahweh's direct words?

What do your statements tell you? Hint; The direct inspired word of your Yahweh god in the bible were no smarter than his creation at this time, which implies that the simple mind set of Yahweh's Bronze and Iron Age people and thinking wrote your bible. 2+2=4.

The Hebrew people, who Yahweh represents now and then, wrote the bible and created another god for their nation, like the other peoples did in the BCE for their nations as well. (Mithra, Zeus, Horus, et al)

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

Christians,

Relative to the main topic of this thread, have you ever thought about what the other peoples of the world did when your Yahweh god flooded the earth, not only killing his HEBREW creation, but the peoples of those other religious gods? Just imagine what Zeus, Mithra, Horus, et al, thought when the waters started to rise, and were thinking, "who in the hell is pissed off at their people again?" Then these gods found out it was the ol' tribal war god Yahweh getting upset again with his HEBREW creation, damn.

Think, is there found through these other gods historicity, any flood narratives where Yahweh had killed those other god's people as well? If not, what does that tell you?

[21stCenturyIconoclast]

When all else fails, find the metaphor. One creates darkness by extinguishing light. One creates light by extinguishing darkness.

The point is that one cannot create darkness. One cannot create evil because it isnt a thing. If I decide to do something evil it isnt because God made me. I did it of my own volition.

That is why God cannot create good or evil.

JLB32168,

If I may ask, where do you get the authority to usurp Yahweh's direct word as stated below?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and I create evil, I the LORD do all these things." ( Isaiah 45:7)

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)

Is this passage still within your, one of many, different versions of the bible? To wit: EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. (Proverbs 30:5)

When your Hebrew Christian Yahweh god says that he created peace and evil as shown above, and that EVERY word of his is flawless, not only do you deny this biblical axiom, but you slap Yahweh in the face by calling him a liar! Such insolence to his word is blasphemous to say the least.

I can almost see Jesus' hand on the lever of the trap doors to hell, as he just shakes his head as he brings up the fact of you usurping his fathers word while you were on planet earth. Is that sulfur that I smell?



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