Lets assume there actually is a God gene: http://www.entheogens.com/godgene.html
and a Gay gene: http://www.webmd.com/content/article/100/105486.htm
I don't want to get bogged down in the specifics of the research because there are only a few people in this forum I would trust to debate it coherently. Instead, let us assume both these genes exist. (Please try, even if you don't trust the science)
If these genes were proven to exist, would it change your view of Christians, Gays, Gay Christians, Atheists or Gay Atheists?
Why?
Note: Genetic predisposition does not always guarantee a certain outcome, it only increases the likelihood. I am hoping this does not fall too far into a discussion of free will.....I want to know more about why YOU would or would not change your view of either group.
God Genes and Gay Genes - hold the Levis
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methylatedghosts
- Sage
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Post #2
Hmmm. I would first off be very skeptical of research that suggests a "god" gene or a "gay" gene, specifically. (I'm doing Neuroanatomy paper at otago university - so, it's from that stand point)
However, assuming there are these genes, I would not really change views on gays or people of any religion. I'm "gay friendly" (not gay, but don't care whether you are or not) - so that wouldn't really change. I think the God gene is a tricky one, in that I don't think it'd cause you to believe in god, but more, would lean you to think about each person's higher purpose so-to-speak.
It'd be interesting to take this further and see if in fact there are genes that may "aid"(?) a person in either direction.
The other side may be that the emotions the mother goes through during pregnancy may also have an effect - especially with the gay gene. e.g. after the world wars, higher than average(?) newborns turned out to be gay... but then, that could also be the increase in people being open about it and of course you'll get higher numbers.
Very interesting though.
However, assuming there are these genes, I would not really change views on gays or people of any religion. I'm "gay friendly" (not gay, but don't care whether you are or not) - so that wouldn't really change. I think the God gene is a tricky one, in that I don't think it'd cause you to believe in god, but more, would lean you to think about each person's higher purpose so-to-speak.
It'd be interesting to take this further and see if in fact there are genes that may "aid"(?) a person in either direction.
The other side may be that the emotions the mother goes through during pregnancy may also have an effect - especially with the gay gene. e.g. after the world wars, higher than average(?) newborns turned out to be gay... but then, that could also be the increase in people being open about it and of course you'll get higher numbers.
Very interesting though.
Post #3
Would not change my views.
1. I don't view gays as a threat.
2. I do consider belief in a god as threatening. It retards education and it is a threat to peace in general. Religion can polarize groups to extreme positions that make tolerance and compromise seem impossible. The belief that "god is on our side" creates an inflexible mode of thinking. It inhibits negotiation, which is necessary for resolution in many political conflicts.
3. Just because a behavior is genetically based does not mean we have to accept it as fate. If it is clearly disruptive and dangerous then we should attempt to ameliorate its effect.
1. I don't view gays as a threat.
2. I do consider belief in a god as threatening. It retards education and it is a threat to peace in general. Religion can polarize groups to extreme positions that make tolerance and compromise seem impossible. The belief that "god is on our side" creates an inflexible mode of thinking. It inhibits negotiation, which is necessary for resolution in many political conflicts.
3. Just because a behavior is genetically based does not mean we have to accept it as fate. If it is clearly disruptive and dangerous then we should attempt to ameliorate its effect.
Post #4
I already think the evidence for a genetic link to homosexuality is, if not compelling, at least suggestive. The current study confirms what I already believe is probably true.Cmass wrote:If these genes were proven to exist, would it change your view of Christians, Gays, Gay Christians, Atheists or Gay Atheists?
I would probably have to think a bit more about the 'God gene,' and how that might change my thinking. I guess I don't find the possibility outrageous or even really surprising. If we assume this is the case, then it would lead me to ask some additional questions.
1. Why are some believers adament about the particulars of their faith, while others are more flexible. For example, people insist you must be Christian, and some CHristians believe you must be Baptist or believe in baptism. Others say you must be Sunni Muslim. On the other hand, Gandhi, the a devout believer in God and a Hindu by faith, allowed that he worshipped the same God as Christians do. What is causing this diffence in how people hold their religious beliefs?
2. If someone does not have the 'God' gene, what factors influence them to believe in God anyway? Obviously there are cultural, family, etc. factors. However, assuming they also have 'transcendent experiences', against their genetic predisposition, why would this happen? I would not expect a hard and fast answer, given the caveat noted above that "genes are not destiny", but I would be curious.
3. What particular aspects of belief are influenced by the gene? For example, would people with the gene tend to believe in a loving God or a vengeful God?
Post #5
1. Why are some believers adament about the particulars of their faith, while others are more flexible. For example, people insist you must be Christian, and some CHristians believe you must be Baptist or believe in baptism. Others say you must be Sunni Muslim. On the other hand, Gandhi, the a devout believer in God and a Hindu by faith, allowed that he worshipped the same God as Christians do. What is causing this diffence in how people hold their religious beliefs?
Micatala, while this is not an answer to my OP I think you should make a thread out of it because it is an wonderful topic - and you presented it quite well. Perhaps an elaboration of "What causes such drastic differences in the expression of the Christian faith?" or something like that.
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Easyrider
Post #7
"Hold the Levis"?
Levis for Temple Services
Recent reports are that many Levis have now been identified and are now in training to perform anticipated Temple practices and services. Besides some who have claimed to have their traditional genealogies, the following DNA analysis also seems to indicate a particular, identifiable blood marker in Levis / Cohens:
The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition
Solidifying their hypothesis of the Cohens' common ancestor, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers was found in 97 of the 106 Cohens tested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Hapoltype (CMH) -- the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000.
The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Cohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 CE. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Cohanim today yields a time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years -- the approximate time of the Exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aaron HaCohen.
http://www.aish.com/societywork/science ... ection.asp
Levis for Temple Services
Recent reports are that many Levis have now been identified and are now in training to perform anticipated Temple practices and services. Besides some who have claimed to have their traditional genealogies, the following DNA analysis also seems to indicate a particular, identifiable blood marker in Levis / Cohens:
The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition
Solidifying their hypothesis of the Cohens' common ancestor, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers was found in 97 of the 106 Cohens tested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Hapoltype (CMH) -- the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000.
The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Cohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 CE. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Cohanim today yields a time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years -- the approximate time of the Exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aaron HaCohen.
http://www.aish.com/societywork/science ... ection.asp
Post #8
"Hold the Levis"?
Easy Rider said:
Levis for Temple Services
Recent reports are that many Levis have now been identified and are now in training to perform anticipated Temple practices and services. Besides some who have claimed to have their traditional genealogies, the following DNA analysis also seems to indicate a particular, identifiable blood marker in Levis / Cohens:
The fascinating story of how DNA studies confirm an ancient biblical tradition
Solidifying their hypothesis of the Cohens' common ancestor, they found that a particular array of six chromosomal markers was found in 97 of the 106 Cohens tested. This collection of markers has come to be known as the Cohen Modal Hapoltype (CMH) -- the standard genetic signature of the Jewish priestly family. The chances of these findings happening at random is greater than one in 10,000.
The finding of a common set of genetic markers in both Ashkenazi and Sephardi Cohanim worldwide clearly indicates an origin pre-dating the separate development of the two communities around 1000 CE. Date calculation based on the variation of the mutations among Cohanim today yields a time frame of 106 generations from the ancestral founder of the line, some 3,300 years -- the approximate time of the Exodus from Egypt, the lifetime of Aaron HaCohen.
Uh. OK. I will never look at my Levis the same again.
But, based upon my OP, would your view of gays and Christians change? If so, why, if not why?
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methylatedghosts
- Sage
- Posts: 516
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:21 pm
- Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Post #9
I have been, and chances are, I will again. I change my beliefs according to what I read and hear. If it makes sense, I may take it into consideration. So far, nothing has "beaten" what I have believed in the last 2 or so years - only how I change within myself. Change is good. Fight change, and it stifles your development, because change is inevitable.Cmass wrote:Thus far, the answer has been: No change.
Is there anyone who would CHANGE their beliefs?
EDIT: this is regarding "religious" beliefs.
Ye are Gods
Post #10
Fight change, and it stifles your development, because change is inevitable.
Good stuff.
I would add to that: Change IS time. And without time there is nothing. That is why there is no God. If God is "timeless" then God is changeless. If God is changeless, then he cannot change his mind or create anything from nothing because to do so would require he do something which would not be changeless.
Kapeesh?
