Atheists it is your turn . . .

[achilles12604]

Ok lets say that God failed miserably. He turns to you and asks you to start over.

Using whatever power you wish to have, how would you create a world of intelligent beings so that you will have a creation which choses to love and worship you.

Here are the only rules . . .

1) You have to obey the laws of the Universe you created because as far as we humans know, these are the only laws that can co-exist. In otherwords you can not create constant contradictions in physics. Example : Gravity can not be violated unless you directly intervene. To violate given laws youu must directly and quite obviously suspend the laws at that given point in time.

2) You can not violate the free will of the creatures to fight against you if they wish. This includes not creating them because not creating someone simply because they will rebel is the ultimate violation of that persons free will. They didn't even get the chance to rebel.

3) Human nature must remain the same. In other words, we have to be of average intelligence and be able to comprehend certain things and be totally clueless about others. We can not possibly know the future, not even 1 second ahead. And human tendency to lust for power, control over our lives, and non-submission to authoritiy figures without a good reason have to remain intact.


Now, given these rules what would you do? How would you interact with your creation? How would you get most of them to desire to love you while at the same time alloing those who wished for the power to run their lives without you, to ignore you entirely?

Points to remember -
-Humans hate being controlled.
-Human's generally are shortsighted and rarely plan for the future (this is why so many Americans have zero retirement and 24000 in debt).
-If a human see's you and your power absolutly directly (like in the OT with pillars of fire and things like this), it will cause even those who otherwise would rebel to follow you out of fear and nothing more. These individuals would never love you. The would simply fear you.

[Goat]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

That is your claim... however, I don't accept Hebrews as piece of scripture coming from God. It is a docuement that is to lead people away from God, not to god.

[FiredUp4jesus]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

That is your claim... however, I don't accept Hebrews as piece of scripture coming from God. It is a docuement that is to lead people away from God, not to god.

Well, I think it's safe to say that the author of the letter would disagree with you, and he was at least as Jewish as you are.

[Goat]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

That is your claim... however, I don't accept Hebrews as piece of scripture coming from God. It is a docuement that is to lead people away from God, not to god.

Well, I think it's safe to say that the author of the letter would disagree with you, and he was at least as Jewish as you are.

Since there are some rather unjewish concepts in Hebrews, I happen to disagree.

Also, from reading it, I would say that the concept that Jesus is God is only there if you assume the Trinity. There is nothing in Hebrews to make someone assume that the Son of God is God.

[Cathar1950]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

[FiredUp4jesus]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

[Goat]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

It was reconized not to be a pauline writing even by Tertullian , who certainly wasn't modern.

Do some actual research about your claims before shooting yourself in the foot.

[FiredUp4jesus]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the definitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

It was reconized not to be a pauline writing even by Tertullian , who certainly wasn't modern.

Do some actual research about your claims before shooting yourself in the foot.

How can I be shooting myself in the foot? I never claimed it was written by Paul. Try reading the posts before embarrassing yourself.

[Cathar1950]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the difinitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

Why do you think you can't read it now with your wife and kids?
Just because it is fake does not mean it does not make the same claims you do.

Does it really matter what you tell your family?
I don't think I quoted Hebrews.

[Confused]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the definitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

It was reconized not to be a pauline writing even by Tertullian , who certainly wasn't modern.

Do some actual research about your claims before shooting yourself in the foot.

How can I be shooting myself in the foot? I never claimed it was written by Paul. Try reading the posts before embarrassing yourself.

Could you guys please be a little more irrelevant. You are arguing scripture and the validity of scripture in a thread about atheism. See the problem here? Take your arguments to the biblical contradictiosn threads.

[Cathar1950]

Shrug.. it shows that there was a cult that claimed that. There were a lot of cults in Judaism at the time.. it was very factured.

And it does not claim the Jesus is God.

Hebrews makes the definitive case the Jesus is God and Messiah from a historical Jewish perpective. You should read it.

The letter of Hebrews is a forged writing that used Paul's name. It is hardly a Historical Jewish perspective. You should not use it as any kind of support.

Wow! If you say so, it must be true! I'll have to go home and tell my wife and kids that Cathar1950 says that Hebrews is a forged writing and not to read it anymore.

It was reconized not to be a pauline writing even by Tertullian , who certainly wasn't modern.

Do some actual research about your claims before shooting yourself in the foot.

How can I be shooting myself in the foot? I never claimed it was written by Paul. Try reading the posts before embarrassing yourself.

Could you guys please be a little more irrelevant. You are arguing scripture and the validity of scripture in a thread about atheism. See the problem here? Take your arguments to the biblical contradictiosn threads.

Why do you have to be so right?
It is funny that scripture is being used against atheist.
What is that all about?
I would rather talk about my lack of a sex life.