We have accounts from 2000 years ago

[Zzyzx]

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We have accounts from 2000 years ago which may or may not be true and accurate. We have no way to determine whether they are true in total, true in part, untrue in total.

Shall we base life decisions on those accounts? Why or why not?

[Inigo Montoya]

[Replying to post 129 by JLB32168]


Perhaps this was the result of necromancy.

Or holographic imagery with audio from a hyper advanced alien life.

How did you rule those out? Surely not by saying there's no evidence those things exist.

[JLB32168]

Perhaps this was the result of necromancy. Or holographic imagery with audio from a hyper advanced alien life. How did you rule those out? Surely not by saying there's no evidence those things exist.

Indeed you might be correct. Having said that, I don’t think you are and I know that neither options – yours or mine – can be proved this side of life.

What do you think was the cause for this occasion?

[marco]

What do you think was the cause for this occasion?

When we don't KNOW we can suppose what we like. The problem then is that religious folk rush in with religious reasons.
I believe that we are in the infancy of knowledge and we are still passing through the long age of superstition. Granted we have added some sophistication to our gods but they remain figments of our ignorance. When we come across something we can't explain it is understandable that many folk will wheel in deities, miracles and maybe magic.

A later age will laugh at us. Meantime, those of us who have discarded superstition have to board planes and wonder if the lunatic god of this or that group will kill us.

[Clownboat]

Powerful evidence for a “miracle�

1) Seeing a man who says, “I’m sure you’ll get pregnant,� but not recognizing who he is.
2) Returning to the main complex and spying this man in an icon and discovering he’s been dead for 90+ years.
3) Getting pregnant w/in the year.
Yup – that seems to suggest “powerful evidence of a ‘miracle’.�
And of course, I’m sure you can read some ghost stories for reference if you’re imagination challenged.

Some people are just able to believe fantastic claims for bad reasons when compared to others whom cannot.

Hmm – bad reasons [?? head scratching] “I see dead people who tell me what I came here to hear.� We’ll simply have to agree to disagree on the nature of these reasons – good or bad.

I watched a movie once where people made the claim that they saw dead people, but as far as I know, people lie and once you're dead, you're dead. Also, it was just a movie.

So, did a lie or a misunderstanding happen in your claim? I would sure think so, but ask someone that is already pre-disposed to believe that the dead can come back to life, and well.. there you have it, a dead person returning is believed over a lie or a misunderstanding.

Then you also mention weeping statues which we know for a fact have been used fraudulently to impress those such as yourself.

Is it possible that you believe such things because you want your religion to be true and not because you have good reason to believe them?

JLB, how do you personally explain this:
It is well known that the awliya’ (close friends, sometimes translated as “saints�) of Allah are those pious believers who truly fear Allah. It is also well known that there are some of the awliya’ who do not possess tangible miracles (karaamah) and others to whom Allah gives miracles.

Are you pre-disposed to accept all miracle claims, or just ones that support your preferred religion? If you don't treat all god miracle claims the same, I would wonder why.

[marco]

Is it possible that you believe such things because you want your religion to be true and not because you have good reason to believe them?

If we could measure truth by the intensity of conviction we would give terrorists a monopoly on what is true. But many Christians, persuaded that their God is whispering messages of love, would be a close second.

People first believe and then find "truth" for what they believe. There is no basis for belief and there can be none. In mathematics we can demonstrate truth by a clever and convincing proof. When a variety of people, believing different things, often mutually inconsistent, say they possess truth then we can and must ignore them. They possess a conviction which is as strong as the faith of people who refuse to walk under a ladder or travel on Friday 13th.

Intelligence, it would seem, is not immune from holding outrageous convictions - which is rather sad.