A Matter of Faith...

[Lainey]

Why is faith considered good...noble...a virtue?

What's so wrong with not believing that it must be punished more severely than any other offense?

I just don't understand...

[Cathar1950]

Why is faith considered good...noble...a virtue?

What's so wrong with not believing that it must be punished more severely than any other offense?

I just don't understand...

Me either. It does seem kind of shallow.
Which is worse lying and killing someone or not believing what someone 2000 years ago believed?
I thought you were joking seems like a reasonable defense.

[Lainey]

Me either. It does seem kind of shallow.
Which is worse lying and killing someone or not believing what someone 2000 years ago believed?
I thought you were joking seems like a reasonable defense.

That's exactly my point--why is murdering and torturing people more easily forgiven than disbelief? Well, if it turns out we're wrong, I guess we'll have to use your defense.

But seriously...can anyone explain to me what's so noble about faith?

[Cathar1950]

Me either. It does seem kind of shallow.
Which is worse lying and killing someone or not believing what someone 2000 years ago believed?
I thought you were joking seems like a reasonable defense.

That's exactly my point--why is murdering and torturing people more easily forgiven than disbelief? Well, if it turns out we're wrong, I guess we'll have to use your defense.

But seriously...can anyone explain to me what's so noble about faith?

I felt that years ago and it seems to make no sense in the Pauline world.
Now in The Hebrews in the OT and some Christians that emphasize discipleship saw faith as trust or faithfulness not belief. So it would seem this kind of fait would be trusting someone(God?) or something(Law?) and being faithful, it was more positive action while on the other hand you got just believing the person or thing exists. My objection to Jesus being some how a needed sacrifice as faith see rather useless as a act of trust or faithfulness. But there is more. They like to give you the short easy version to take you in then the real stuff comes out. By the time you would catch on you run the risk of never seeing any other way with out fearing the loss of your soul.

But you are right what is so nobel about faith?
Then what is faith?
How and why is that suppose to work?

[Confused]

Me either. It does seem kind of shallow.
Which is worse lying and killing someone or not believing what someone 2000 years ago believed?
I thought you were joking seems like a reasonable defense.

That's exactly my point--why is murdering and torturing people more easily forgiven than disbelief? Well, if it turns out we're wrong, I guess we'll have to use your defense.

But seriously...can anyone explain to me what's so noble about faith?

I felt that years ago and it seems to make no sense in the Pauline world.
Now in The Hebrews in the OT and some Christians that emphasize discipleship saw faith as trust or faithfulness not belief. So it would seem this kind of fait would be trusting someone(God?) or something(Law?) and being faithful, it was more positive action while on the other hand you got just believing the person or thing exists. My objection to Jesus being some how a needed sacrifice as faith see rather useless as a act of trust or faithfulness. But there is more. They like to give you the short easy version to take you in then the real stuff comes out. By the time you would catch on you run the risk of never seeing any other way with out fearing the loss of your soul.

But you are right what is so nobel about faith?
Then what is faith?
How and why is that suppose to work?

I am going to try to answer this unbiased.

What is so noble about faith: it makes those with it feel as if they are somehow more special than the average citizen in the spiritual sense. In reality, it defines the worthiness of a friend. To have faith in another human is the ultimate release of control.

What is faith: This is very subjective. The websters dictionary would say one thing, the relgious zealot would say another, my best freind would say yet another, and my children would say yet another. I guess if someone told you to jump off a cliff to save the world, and you did so, and died of course in the process, that is faith. Sometimes logical, but usually illogical and biased.

If I knew how faith worked, I would win the most prominent award in science.

[Lainey]

Now in The Hebrews in the OT and some Christians that emphasize discipleship saw faith as trust or faithfulness not belief. So it would seem this kind of fait would be trusting someone(God?) or something(Law?) and being faithful, it was more positive action while on the other hand you got just believing the person or thing exists.

Okay, I've heard this too. But it doesn't really answer my question, only creates a new one--what is so noble about trusting something you can't be sure exists? Why are those of us who are unable to "trust" this invisible entity thought of as "lesser" by those who do "trust?"

I am going to try to answer this unbiased.

What is so noble about faith: it makes those with it feel as if they are somehow more special than the average citizen in the spiritual sense. In reality, it defines the worthiness of a friend. To have faith in another human is the ultimate release of control.

But then it's not really noble, it's just pretentious. I think you're right, though--some of the Christians I've met seem very concerned with being more special/pious/faithful etc. than everyone else. Is it a competition? I can see having faith in a friend, though. You can see a friend! You know they exist. You have absolutely no way of interacting with this God entity.

I'm confused too...

Has anyone ever wondered if God is capricious and directs His/Her/It's favor on people on a whim? Like how a person might take pity on a bug and catch it and put it outside one time, and on another occasion, step on it?

[Cathar1950]

Join the confusion club Lainey.
Abraham believed God and felt himself righteous for doing so. He had dinner with him and his angels walked with him and even tried to talk him out of destroying Sodom.
If I had dinner with you and you promised me something I might believe you but if some mad man came along and told be you made a promise to me after you failed to show up for our date I would question his word and unless I talked to you later and you had a good reason for not at least calling, I would not ask you to dinner again.
Trust is one thing but I don’t want to show up on “you have been punked”.

Maybe we should start a confused user group.
What do you think Confused?

[Chance]

Faith isn't a sin, and in my opinion it is noble and not worthy of punishment. It's just believing in what's right and wrong.

[Confused]

Faith isn't a sin, and in my opinion it is noble and not worthy of punishment. It's just believing in what's right and wrong.

No one says faith isn't or is a sin. Certain religiions claim not to have faith is the sin. And those same religions say that believing in what is wrong and what is right isn't good enough, not even practicing what is right is good enough. You must have faith in this elusive concept of god/christ or all the good is irrelevant. Your lack of faith in god/christ condemns you.

[Confused]

Join the confusion club Lainey.
Abraham believed God and felt himself righteous for doing so. He had dinner with him and his angels walked with him and even tried to talk him out of destroying Sodom.
If I had dinner with you and you promised me something I might believe you but if some mad man came along and told be you made a promise to me after you failed to show up for our date I would question his word and unless I talked to you later and you had a good reason for not at least calling, I would not ask you to dinner again.
Trust is one thing but I don’t want to show up on “you have been punked”.

Maybe we should start a confused user group.
What do you think Confused?

I say, welcome to the club Lainey. Though I doubt it will help you any. It seems the more I learn, the more confused I get. I think your question is a valid one, but in religious context, it is the defining factor. Either have faith and gain eternal life or dont and gain eternal damnation. Nothing in between. I am not sure which is scarier, believing in the wrong thing or not believing at all. I doubt I will help you solve the dilemma. But if you stumble onto something, please do share.